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For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

  • 1.  For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 10-18-2012 11:22 AM
    This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Housing Knowledge Community and Custom Residential Architects Network .
    -------------------------------------------
    This is in response to some other recent comments on CRAN about the NAHB considering creating a certification program for "home designers." 

    CRAN-AIA CERTIFICATION PROGRAM FOR "HOME BUILDERS"
    Hey: okay, as soon as NAHB does this, let's have CRAN immediately create a "Home Builder" CRAN-AIA Certification program!  We can make this program for all interested "builders" (to heck with requiring licensed, real General Contractors, huh? because NAHB doesn't seem particularly concerned about involving licensed real architects...).  Anyone with a hammer and a pickup truck would qualify.  No problem.  No green card?  No problem.  No education or degrees in construction?  No problem. No state license to build anything?  No big whoop.  No CEUs?  okay.  Can do.  We'll certify ya, dude!   and oh yeah: no General Liability insurance?  Who cares?  No Workers Compensation insurance?  Pffffftttt!  Fall down, fake an injury and sue the homeowner.  Hah!  Just give a us a fee, we'll print yer certificate out and e-mail it to you to proudly hang on the rear window of your aging F-150, right under your gun rack.

    PRUDENT PRACTICE FOR CERTIFICATIONS COME FROM THOSE WHO ARE LICENSED
    Okay.  Now that we've got that out of our systems: What NAHB is proposing is not prudent.  It can hurt and confuse the public and it hurts real, licensed architects in the CRAN and elsewhere, who primarily practice residential architecture.  Residential architects everywhere are struggling to survive and confusing the public with some other "certification" program from entities not licensed to provide such services by any state government can and will mislead the public into thinking that they are architects.  What such "designers" Don't say when meeting or talking with clients is the issue.  What they should say is "hey, I'm NOT an architect.  I just draw."  Do they?  What do you think?

    CRAN GOAL: TO INFORM THE PUBLIC ABOUT REAL LICENSED RESIDENTIAL ARCHITECTS
    CRAN is struggling right now, to fund programs to begin public awareness programs to do two main things:
    1.  that real, licensed architects exist and can and will design homes for anyone.
    2.  that there are good reasons for anyone to hire an architect to design their home.

    The problem CRAN and any residential architect has with step one is that when other organizations (like NAHB) "certify" people with no educational requirements, no state license to design anything, no CEUs or other legitimate qualifications, it appears to whitewash those less qualified people and set them forth as if they are architects, even though they don't explicitly say that.  It also confuses the public, many of whom do not even realize that there are such things as architects who specialize in designing homes who are available to design their homes (I know this is true).

    WHERE CERTIFICATIONS SHOULD COME FROM
    This is bad for us and bad for the public and quite frankly, I really don't see what good it does the NAHB.  If anything, the NAHB ought to be contacting the CRAN leadership about organizing programs of mutually beneficial cooperation to refer legitimate licensed GCs and refer real licensed residential architects.  NOT attempt passive-aggressive inter-organizational warfare by undermining what we do.  How would the NAHB like it if CRAN really did create a "Certified Builder" program.  Wouldn't that frost their chops?  I'm not seriously advocating that. 

    WHAT SHOULD BE HAPPENING: MUTUAL REFERRAL PROGRAM BETWEEN LICENSED ENTITIES
    What I would like to see is CRAN and the NAHB working together to HELP EACH OTHER, not harm the public nor take the bread of off each other's tables. Instead, I hesitate to book our leadership to do pesky things about which they are not invested: but John & Dave: would either of you guys consider giving a call to NAHB and try to talk them out of their ill-advised certification program of "designers" and instead suggest embarking on a mutual referral program, whereby CRAN AIA architects would refer NAHB GCs and vice versa, rather than waging war on each other?

    WHO HAS THE LEGITIMATE RIGHT TO CERTIFY ANYONE
    And : what legitimate right does a contractor organization have certifying anyone to do anything, other than Build?  No more that the CRAN/AIA would have certifying builders.  Each organization should be certifying and underscoring the legitimate qualifications of those licensed by law to do what they do and not muddy the waters of public perception. 

    But, I'm sure others will have different opinions.
    -------------------------------------------
    Rand Soellner AIA
    Architect/Owner/Principal
    Home Architects
    Cashiers NC
    -------------------------------------------


  • 2.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 10-19-2012 01:56 PM
    I think your suggestion that there be dialogue between AIA and NAHB is a great one.  There is a blog post entitled "AIA + NAHB: Two Professional Associations with Many Issues in Common" here: http://www.ryantaylorarchitects.com/2012_1010-aia-nahb-two-professional-associations-with-many-issues-in-common/?goback=%2Egde_59247_member_173868591 that appears to be a beginning.

    I wonder if there would  more interaction with CRAN if it became RAN.  Custom residential is a smaller part of the big picture at NAHB.  

    As chair of the NAHB's Informastion Technology Integration subcommittee, I would not have direct involvement with the Design Committee at NAHB.  I think the DC would be a great place to begin a collaborative effort.


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    Stephen Holzer
    Principal
    eM8s, LLC
    Grass Lake MI
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  • 3.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 10-22-2012 02:34 PM
    Stephen, thanks very much for referencing the link to the dialogue between AIA and NAHB. Excellent. Although the AIA CRAN is already well-established, I can certainly see a sub-group that was called RAN that might include architects that provided stock plans in addition to custom designs. Thanks for pointing out that the custom part is only a small part of design at NAHB.

    Posting the contact info for whomever was in charge of the Design Committee at NAHB would allow AIA members that wanted to have influence to ask that they be added to an email list for future correspondence.

    As a member of a CRAN subcommittee, I am working towards having a sticker as a minimum be placed in all homes stating who the designer/architect of record is along with other pertinent information such as who the builder and major subs are as well. ICC is already heading in that direction with the posting of energy code requirements and I'd like to take that one step further to include other pertinent information that could help future owners, appraisers, etc.

    -------------------------------------------
    Debra Rucker Coleman, AIA
    Architect
    Sun Plans Inc.
    Mobile, AL
    -------------------------------------------



  • 4.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 10-31-2012 05:36 PM
    Debra et al,

    You might be interested in joining the existing "RAN" -- actually called the AIA Housing Knowledge Community. CRAN was originally a sub-committee of HKC. But, as you can see, great projects with dedicated volunteers have made CRAN it's own community. If you are interested in getting involved with the HKC leadership, contact housing@aia.org.  

    -------------------------------------------
    Kathleen Simpson
    Manager, Knowledge Communities
    The American Institute of Architects
    Washington DC
    -------------------------------------------








  • 5.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 10-23-2012 10:49 AM

    thanks Stephen.  that is constructive.  Any suggestions as to whom we here at CRAN AIA should contact at NAHB to begin this dialogue to create something that is more constructive for both our organizations?
    -------------------------------------------
    Rand Soellner AIA
    Architect/Owner/Principal
    Home Architects
    Cashiers NC
    -------------------------------------------








  • 6.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 10-19-2012 04:07 PM
    If a "residential designer" program is going to be created, in my opinion, it should be created by architects (possibly with input by NAHB) but definitely not by NAHB or allow NAHB to  do it first.

    I personally took a CGP (Certified Green Professional) program by NAHB.  Given by NAHB certified instructors.  Yes, there was some substance to the program.  Believe it was a day and a half course with a written test at the end.  The instructor was pushed, to say the least, to cover all of the material in the time allowed.

    There was barely time left to get the written test completed, but if you did not know the answers, they were readily available.  Everyone passed the test.

    The main objective of the participants was to be able to add the initials after their name and have a certificate to hang on the wall.  Learning the material was not of utmost priority.  Prerequisites nor experiences were not considered.

    The instructors were possibly scheduled at three different sites around the country for that week and their objective was to "certify" as many individuals as possible in the shortest amount of time.  NAHB was only interested in reporting a large number of persons that had been certified.

       



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    D. Cook AIA
    Tipp City OH
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  • 7.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 10-23-2012 10:50 AM
    thanks David.  Exactly what I'm talking about.

    -------------------------------------------
    Rand Soellner AIA
    Architect/Owner/Principal
    Home Architects
    Cashiers NC
    -------------------------------------------








  • 8.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 10-19-2012 06:26 PM
    Another thoughts re: NAHB setting up a "Residential Designers" certification.

    If the certification is set up by NAHB, will NAHB set up a board to address complaints against these "certified" people?  Will they have standards of ethics?  I doubt that these will happen.

    The states have already established these standards for architects through state boards and would make it easier to create a separate category.  Testing, certification, continuing education, complaints against the "bad" boys and girls along with a code of ethics.

    I believe that our Board of Examiners would accept "Residential Designers" as a separate category under the established system, than a different system under the direction of another group.

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    D. Cook AIA
    Tipp City OH
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  • 9.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 10-22-2012 08:24 AM
    I think the point is, that there is no need for a separate category for such a thing as "residential designers" to be certified, licensed or anything else.  We, licensed real architects, already provide the services, through education, experience, state licensure and continuing education to properly design homes, period.  No need for some sort of, kind of, maybe grey area of faux professionals to get in there and confuse the public about what they do.  We are already do it.

    -------------------------------------------
    Rand Soellner AIA
    Architect/Owner/Principal
    Home Architects
    Cashiers NC
    -------------------------------------------








  • 10.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 10-22-2012 10:01 AM
    As an architect with over 20 years experience in multi-state residential design, I read some of the comments on this post and realized perhaps some of you are not informed on the status of residential design in the US. I know the highly qualified professionals over there (many of them architects), and believe the NAHB is earnestly trying to protect the public. There are many times more "designers" out there who design homes than there are architects. It seems to make sense that instead of putting all of them out of work by making architects the only path to residential design - regulate them.

    As it currently stands, anyone with a T-square and flat surface can design a home (with certain limits) in most states. While an architect in any state may design homes, there are some states that have adopted certification processes for "Residential Designers" such as Nevada. The Nevada program is administered and enforced by the State Board of Architecture. They also require certification of Interior Designers.

    Prior to becoming an architect in Nevada, I went through the process of becoming a certified residential designer. The test was two or three days long and closely resembled the ARE in content, but was of a residential nature. I then appeared before the State Board to be sworn in. That was nearly 20 years ago.

    While architecture as a profession considers Residential Designer certification a threat to our industry and practices, we must all admit that any level of study and testing does indeed provide an additional layer of protection to the public. However, not all states are eager to initiate, operate and maintain residential design certification bureaucracies, so it might make sense for a leading national organization to try a similar, but voluntary program. The same logic worked quite well for the USGBC.

    If you are familiar with the NAHB magazine, BUILDER, you will see they are promoting good design. I can't recall ever seeing a featured project in their magazine that was not architect-designed.

    -------------------------------------------
    Gordon Rogers AIA, LEED AP BD+C
    EAS Department Executive
    Kitchell CEM, Inc.
    Sacramento CA
    -------------------------------------------








  • 11.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 10-23-2012 08:31 AM
    Here is where Rand and I disagree.

    I have gotten to know some of the AIBD designers in my state and have attended a few of their meetings.  My experiences have been that (in many cases) they are just as competent as most architects in every way!  Yes, they are self taught.  Most have attained CPBD certification and take their vocation very seriously.  Many began by working for architecture firms, so they were instilled with a high set of standards for producing CD's and such.  They still represent a small faction people engaged in residential design.  In fact, I am told that total membership in AIBD has dwindled to about 1,000 nationally.

    They people that concern me are the bottom feeders.  The in-house lumberyard guys & gals who provide "free" design services if a client purchases $100,000.00 worth of materials.  Talk about a conflict of interests!  Many contractors also think that because they can purchase and operate CAD and produce a minimal set of drawings, they are qualified to design too.  A little bit like sang that if you can type, you can write an interesting novel or a competent technical document.  They produce shoddy documents and thoughtless designs.

    What can the AIA do for the large segment of the architecture profession that focuses on residential design?  Doing nothing is not the answer!  Having awards programs (such as Residential Architect magazine) that only recognize avant-garde "Euro-boxes" is not the answer!  Having a dues structure that is unattainable for many small/one person firms is not the answer!  Emphasizing "Custom" is not the answer to the sprawling blight that is currently being produced!  Providing promotional materials with custom homes (many that require a commercial contractor) is not the answer!  Kicking the can down the road, by stating that licensure is a state issue is not the answer!  Celebrating the "star-chitect" is not the answer!

    Can the AIA recognize that there are many architects who do work for builders ( or clients w/o sophisticated tastes)  and in many cases have to compete with the bottom feeders?  It's time to recognize that residential design needs to be regulated,  It's time to reach out to these other organizations and work cooperatively to ensure the public's interestes are being served.

    Can the AIA advocate on behalf of all architects, especially the small practitioners dedicated to residential design?


    -------------------------------------------
    Edward Shannon
    Waterloo IA
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  • 12.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 10-24-2012 05:00 AM
    With all this talk about whether non architects should be designing homes, I would like to point out that there have always been contractor draftsmen designing simple 'builder' homes and there probably always will be. At least the NAHB's certification program will be providing these draftsmen-'designers' with better skills and backgrounds. So, hopefully there will be some more thoughtful designs coming from these people than there has in the past. I don't think that those projects were ever in play for architects, so I don't see the NAHB's program as having much impact on the profession. If architects want to capture a larger part of the design services market, then they need to demonstrate clear value to clients (whether it is for homeowners or developers). Too often, architects focus on impressing their peers and stroking their egos, and put less less emphasis on satisfying the hopes and needs of their clients. Many architects fail to design for the client's available budget and impose their own ideas on them. This is an area where non architects generally are better at serving the interest of their clients. ------------------------------------------- Emory Baldwin AIA FabCab Seattle WA -------------------------------------------


  • 13.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 10-25-2012 11:21 AM
    I've been following the discussion about non-architects designing homes with great interest, because I'm one of those people.  I agree with Emory, and will further point out that architectural design and drafting is a profession in it's own right.

    The people working in this field aren't only contractor or lumber yard draftsmen without training.  In fact, the architectural profession is supported by the work of draftsmen who earned a two year technical degree, such as "Architectural Technology".   You probably have several competent technicians in your office. 

    It's no wonder that some of them would choose to start their own businesses, serving the needs of homeowners of modest means, contractors, and developers.  It's a vast under served market, which should be obvious if you look around and see the quality of design.  I'm sure you'll agree that all those boxy subdivision houses could have been better, with little or no cost increase.

    I've had a successful business for 15 years, based in a rural area where the nearest architect is 20 miles away in one direction and in the other three, at least 50 miles away.  Homeowners and contractors are very grateful to find me.  My fees are reasonable, because they don't include contract administration or construction observation.  Construction Drawings are more than adequate to pull a permit, but don't include product specifications or lots of details.  People are happy, I make a modest living, and I get to do what I love. 

    Here's what I think:  there should be a skilled architect or designer in every small town & in every urban neighborhood.  It should be easy & enjoyable to hire these professionals.  Our built environment will improve and be more sustainable, one project at a time.

    -------------------------------------------
    Amber Westerman
    Owner
    Amber Westerman Building Design
    Dodgeville WI
    www.amberwesterman.com
    -------------------------------------------








  • 14.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 10-26-2012 09:37 AM
    Amber,
    I agree completely. I've got nothing against starchitects, and admire a bunch of their work. But we're missing an opportunity to reach a wider audience. The AIA (we) could create advertising along the lines of:

    "From simple plans, to grand schemes, seek out an Architect first."
    With visuals or audio to support back it up.



    -------------------------------------------
    Christopher Vlcek AIA
    Architect
    Littlewolf Architecture
    Great Barrington MA
    -------------------------------------------








  • 15.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 10-26-2012 10:54 AM
    Here we go again with the architectural prima dona syndrome. I too agree with the last too posted comments. I am a licensed architect that had a residential design/build company focusing on homes in upscale urban neighborhoods for over 15 years. I too would agree that there are good home designers that are not licensed architects and there are architects that are very poor home designers. If you do not specialize in home design it is difficult to shift into that gear.
    Way too often I have seen architects that are too focused on the look and dynamics of a house and/or too young to totally understand the realities of how a house needs to function with family, children, storage, etc. because they have never had that experience themselves or had to actually live in something they designed.
    There is a difference in designing a house and designing a home. Think about it.

    -------------------------------------------
    S. Jones AIA
    Owner
    S Berry Jones - Architects
    Memphis TN
    -------------------------------------------








  • 16.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 10-25-2012 01:17 PM


    -------------------------------------------
    Perry Cofield AIA
    Design Ways & Means Architects
    Arlington VA
    -------------------------------------------

    I just read Jeff Potter's puff peice defending liscensure. You can't disagree with health, safety and welfare...yet his comments, I thought, are disconnected from reality. At this point in our history, architects did not create sprawl....yet there is little we can do to engage the perps of such as long as home builders are able to bypass our range of services, which includes planning.  Mr. Potter needs to do a bit more than play defense. The AIA needs to be more lke the NRA....not to defend guns, but to meaningfully expand a mission to defend the environment.  Does Mr. Potter seek more graduates with no acheivable goals?





  • 17.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 10-26-2012 08:57 AM
    What about if I need an appendectomy?  The closest surgeon is far away and too expenssive.  Maybe I should give a shot to my neighbor the nurse who has a community college degree. After all, an appendectomy is a routine procedure, right?



    -------------------------------------------
    Genaro Salierno AIA
    Principal
    Genaro Salierno Architect, LLC
    Verona NJ
    -------------------------------------------








  • 18.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 10-29-2012 09:15 AM
    Amen, Genaro.  Of course you are being funny.  No one would want anyone performing surgery on them rather than a real, licensed Medical Doctor.  Same thing with architecture, including architecture of homes.

    -------------------------------------------
    Rand Soellner AIA
    Architect/Owner/Principal
    Home Architects
    Cashiers NC
    -------------------------------------------








  • 19.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 10-30-2012 10:11 AM
    I haven't read all the responses on this topic, so forgive me if I'm repeating a comment. It reminds me of the pain reliever ad showing the surgeon trying to play the violin in a quartet--failing of course. Then the violinist is shown trying to select the right pain reliever with the message being that we wouldn't want our doctor doing our job, so why don't we allow our doctors to do their job.

    Our profession has done poorly at communicating the value of our knowledge. Consequently, we are not respected--even the profession itself is perceived as being something that anybody can do (and often do do). We get developers or contractors trying to design their own projects, not to mention home-owners, then blame poor execution for the failures of the design, or wonder why no one is buying their ugly and dysfunctional condos (or they are purchased and the builder remains oblivious to the complaints of the new owners).

    That can change with our own thinking about how we market ourselves, and with help from the AIA repositioning efforts. I encourage all of you to focus more on your value, your knowledge, and what sets you apart as an exceptional alternative to the cheap but mundane and unknowledgeable competition. ...And participate in the AIA's surveys and activities geared toward repositioning. The repositioning effort is being customized by your input.

    David W. Clarke AIA
    President, AIA Southern New Mexico Chapter
    Senior Architect, Williams Design Group, Inc.
    Las Cruces NM
    -------------------------------------------








  • 20.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 10-31-2012 07:06 AM
    Hello David, thank you for your input.  Having the perspective of a President of a regional chapter is important to the CRAN's efforts. 
    It will take far more than commenting on repositioning.
    It will take money.
    Money for: public awareness programs to inform that public that real, licensed architects even exist that are willing to design their homes, and that there are good reasons for anyone to have an architect design their home.

    If, in your position, you can do anything to obtain a piece of the yearly dues to be channeled to CRAN for its use in this effort, that would be much appreciated.  As Big Bird knows, you can't get air-time without funding and neither can we.

    thanks again for contributing your thoughts.

    -------------------------------------------
    Rand Soellner AIA
    Architect/Owner/Principal
    Home Architects
    Cashiers NC
    -------------------------------------------








  • 21.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 10-31-2012 03:37 PM
    I think that the analogy of the doctor is an interesting one, but it needs to be modified.  If a person needs to have an appendix removed or any other critical procedure, then if requires the expertise of a surgeon our other specially trained doctor.  If a person simply needs to get checked out for strep throat or get a flu shot, then they can do that with a nurse practitioner or sometimes even a pharmacist.

    Similarly, the expertise of a licensed architect is necessary to design a large, complex building (whether it be multifamily, commercial, institutional, etc).  This is required by law in most instances, and only architects have the training to fully address the life safety issues and other complex issues that exist with bigger buildings.  For a house, however, the issues are simple enough that anyone with some decent design background and construction experience can figure out how to put it together.  I believe that architects will generally come up with better house designs, but other designers can certainly come up with ones that are pretty good too.  The average person doesn't need (and probably can't afford) an architect designed home.  They will generally be happy and satisfied with a sufficiently well designed home, regardless of the type of designer.  There are a lot of poorly designed (and poorly built) homes out there, but there are also a lot of really good ones, many of which are designed by non-architects.

    I'm not trying to sway people away from hiring architects to design their homes (because I know that most architects will do a great job), but rather I think that we as architects shouldn't over-inflate our relevance in the home design marketplace (and we shouldn't suggest that other designers are incapable of designing a home).  While it is necessary for a client to hire an architect for a large building, it is not necessary for them to do so for a house.

    -------------------------------------------
    Emory Baldwin AIA
    FabCab
    Seattle WA
    -------------------------------------------








  • 22.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 11-01-2012 09:04 AM
    I couldn't disagree with your point of view more, Emory.  You obviously do not design homes for a living.
    The AIA has historically indicated that "the design of homes and housing is among the most complex efforts any architect can ever undertake"  There is more going on between the walls per square foot in a house than in any other building type. I have, in my career, designed VA Medical Center ICUs, ICNs, NASA laboratories, Air Force renovations, County fire stations, middle schools, elementary schools, high schools, water treatment facilities, restaurants, huge themed shopping malls, State office buildings, as well as multi-story multi-family projects, including a high-rise.  I also was the architect of record of about half of Jurassic Park for Universal Studios in Orlando.  So I have a varied and comprehensive background from which to compare. 

    What I can tell anyone is that the AIA's published viewpoint about houses being among the most complex building type is absolutely true.  And to have anyone other than a real architect designing them is wrong and shameful.  How many have to die?  How many non-architect designed homes just DID die in hurricane Sandy?  Usually, it takes a great loss of life for state, Federal and local governments to act to try to avoid the horror in the future. Hopefully Sandy will have taught us all something: that houses should be designed by people who care the most: architects.  This is the AIA after all.  I should be preaching to the choir here, folks. 

    -------------------------------------------
    Rand Soellner AIA
    Architect/Owner/Principal
    Home Architects
    Cashiers NC
    -------------------------------------------








  • 23.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 11-06-2012 09:47 AM

    Emory,

    Respectfully, you are wrong at many levels.  When I take my kids to be checked for strep, a nurse handles it under the supervision of their pediatrician.  When I go for my inmunotherapy shots, it is a nurse doing it only if there is an MD in the premises, by law. 

    A nurse practitioner is a licensed health professional who can even prescribe some types of drugs.

    Pharmacists can provide flue shots when their state licensed them to do that.


    My appendix example was not random.  An appendectomy is a routine procedure that even a nurse who has seen a doctor perform it can do it successfully.  But it sounds bad doesn't it.


    Going back to the architecture profession, I have been called many times to fix the mess that other non-architects have created in very small projects after an inspector put a stop of work order because he/she saw something wrong.  



    -------------------------------------------
    Genaro Salierno AIA
    Principal
    Genaro Salierno Architect, LLC
    Verona NJ
    -------------------------------------------








  • 24.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 11-01-2012 02:11 PM
    David Clarke states that highlighting our valuable knowledge and using better marketing are a means to increase our perception by potential clients. He is right, of course, but the problem for residential architects and small project practitioners goes beyond that. No matter what the national AIA has or hasn't done regarding emphasizing our knowledge will fall short of expectations when there is increasing competition and falling barriers to enter the design and construction industry. For example, although almost anyone can represent themselves in a court of law -- can have access to the court system -- no one with any real hope of winning a serious case would do so. Most people rely on professionals practicing law. Another example is found in medicine where access to hospitals and their sophisticated medical care is gained almost exclusively by professionals practicing medicine. The law and medical professions have relatively high barriers to entry that those wishing to enter the design (architecture) and construction industry don't.

    Regulatory reforms often mean that unlicensed or poorly trained people can sell services that are often cheaper than architects' and in direct competition with them. And when building departments don't require architect's or engineer's stamps to get residential or smaller projects approved, all of these other people have access to the municipal building system. Architects are seen as just one more category of person accessing a system that is open to (almost) all.

    One more related issue for architects is that every building and its users' needs are truly unique, especially when issues of site are applied to seemingly identical buildings. That is why fixing a plaque to a building designed for one occupant may not indicate value for the next occupant. Unless you are a star architect, a plaque should highlight some specific objective value (like energy use) rather than a subjective value. Perhaps, like lawyers or other professionals, we need to develop better and more recognized specializations. Is that what LEED is all about? While there is a fair amount of specialization among architects (and their consultants) in larger buildings, it is harder to identify and develop that expertise in residential and smaller projects. Besides, architects may shy away from specialization because we see value in leading the entire construction team.

    So what's a residential or small project practitioner to do? Increase our knowledge, become expert at some aspect of designing or building, and find some way to convince people that because of our unique ability to aggregate and help solve the myriad issues related to design and construction that we are justified in requesting (or demanding) higher barriers to enter our field.

    -------------------------------------------
    Daniel Alter AIA
    Daniel Alter Architect PLLC
    Brooklyn NY
    -------------------------------------------








  • 25.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 10-30-2012 12:46 PM
    What if you were a doctor and you had no work, but there's a community of sick people of average means with no insurance, thus they couldn't afford your fees. They can put on bandaids, take cough medicine, etc. but they need a professional's help diagnosing their conditions and prescribing the right medicine. Would you give them just the service they need that they can afford or would you tell them you refuse to help unless you can charge for full service to do the simple things they can do themselves?

    We're only servicing 3% of America's housing needs for a reason and it's not because the designers, builders, and other amateurs are stealing the work from us. It's because we choose NOT to adjust our business models to accommodate the needs and means of 97% of the rest of the customers in the industry. Rather, we expect 97% of America to adjust their needs and means to fit our business models tailored to service the wealthy. How can we expect everyone to get an Architect's stamp when we have such a manpower issue and, quite frankly, a lack of understanding of how to adjust our business models to accommodate average people? There is a huge wealth of work out there that may not put you on a magazine cover, but these are design problems none the less. A single mom making $50K a year is not going to afford your full list of services, but she needs and deserves a great design too. All she needs is a great idea and the drawings required for permit and she can afford your services if that's all you provide, so why won't you? Is it worse to let her pick paint colors, fixtures, siding, etc for a professional design OR is it better to let her do that with an amateur's design? What's so wrong about doing the heavy lifting when the alternative is simply not participating at all?

    I made better money per hour on a single mom job designing a simple bedroom addition for limited service than I did for the $1.3 million full service new custom house job across the street. A basic permit set is simple and to the point. The time you spend is quite predictable. I sure did underestimate the amount of work I'd put into the 5,500sf heavy timber house with all the bells and whistles. We often talk ourselves out of helping regular Jane and jump at the chance to over do it with Millionaire Joe thinking the larger fee really means you're making more money. It's all about dollars per hour!

    -------------------------------------------
    Eric Rawlings AIA
    Owner
    Rawlings Design, Inc.
    Decatur GA
    -------------------------------------------








  • 26.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 10-31-2012 07:38 AM
    Of course, Eric, you make a good point about trying to downscale the effort for a smaller scope project than a larger project.  Sure.  There are certain things, however that you cannot overlook and must provide, otherwise, you are setting yourself up for some legal problems (with state boards and possibly in the field).

    When we all are granted our licenses, we have to take a sacred vow to the protect the Health, Safety & Welfare of the public. 

    The 50 Boards of Architecture take this mission very seriously and routinely post "rogue's galleries" in the state publication, sent to all licensees.  This "gallery" is the humiliating listing of the various architects, non-architects and other n'er do wells whom have committed the grievous sin of either not doing a proper job in their documents or who are not licensed, but have done things that only licensed professionals are supposed to do.

    My point in this, is that I have seen architects hung out to dry, put in jeopardy of losing their licenses for such things as: failing:
    "to indicate either in specifications or details that steel support angles over openings are to have flashing, over them to drain wall cavities above them, and furthermore that such flashing is to be dammed on the ends, to prevent any such condensation or moisture penetration from leaking into the wall on either end..."

    and that is just one example.  Others I have seen: "failure to indicate finishes or door information."  And there are countless others, that may seem inconsequential, when trying to satisfy the low budget of a minor project for a client whom you do not want to charge more for your efforts.

    The point is: just because you produce a minimal package that may satisfy a local building department, does not mean that you are producing what the Board of Architecture requires of a licensed architect practicing in their state.  And there's no E&O insurance policy or General Liability policy or LLC that will protect an architect from the actions taken against him by his licensing board.  Those are issues of possible presumed negligence which could come under the scrutiny of harsh and demanding peer architects, going over what is in the documents and what isn't.  Not including what is viewed as necessary is no protection either.  Leaving out things that other architects would view as required will just get you in trouble.

    So: be careful out there.

    If you want to charge less and do less: okay.  I know I have, in order to do work that I know I probably would not have obtained otherwise.  But along with that: you still have to include certain things, no matter how much effort and time those "essentials" take you.  What exactly those essentials are would be the subject of another conversation and that would be a fruitful discussion for all of us to have.  What is enough?  What is not enough?  Is the solution a big "comply with code" statement?  While that would be well-advised, that probably won't be enough.  Perhaps some sort of outline specification that covers issues in writing that have created trouble for other architects in the past, when they did not have that information, at least in text form?  Perhaps somewhere in there lies the answer. 

    -------------------------------------------
    Rand Soellner AIA
    Architect/Owner/Principal
    Home Architects
    Cashiers NC
    -------------------------------------------








  • 27.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 11-01-2012 08:43 AM
    We're talking about residences here #1. There are no rules in the State of GA that require me to provide a specification manual, paint colors, cabinet styles, trim profiles, siding styles, etc. for a new residence or a renovation to a residence. I have well over 200 built projects without a single threat of a law suit. I know firms that have been sued because of discrepancies between drawings and spec books. In fact, the more information you provide a lawyer the more likely they will find something to nail you with. Think of all the plan book companies that provide residential designs all across the country that don't contain spec books, finish selections, etc and they are authored by licensed Architects. I think you're confusing Commercial with Residential.

    I hear many Architects like yourself that try to talk themselves out of providing designs for regular people by saying they must accept a full list of your services so you can protect yourself and in the same breath you think every house should require an Architect's stamp. You can't have both, Rand. Again, we're providing designs for 3% of the housing industry and have a severe manpower issue when it comes to this requirement. Sure, I'd love to live in a world where we were required and we were so numerous that this was possible, but we have managed to put ourselves in this position, in part, because many of us have convinced ourselves that we can't provide excellence without a full list of unaffordable services, some of which may or may not be required for commercial buildings, but not residences. More over, average people can't, WON'T pay half their annual salary for an instruction manual when there are many affordable options out there. Most of us couldn't afford to hire ourselves for our own home design. Doesn't that tell you something? We need to learn how to provide just what they need within the confines of local regulations, just like Designers, Builders, and Plan Book Companies are for 97% of the rest of the potential clients we choose to ignore out of fear.

    I have never heard of an Architect being hung out to dry because a RESIDENTIAL design didn't specify flashing over a door with dams at the jambs. Sure, it's great if you can provide all of this information, but if an average residential builder in GA saw a specification manual on a house job site, it would end up being used as TP in the Port-a-potty. Most of the guys I have to work with can't speak English, more less read it. They can barely read drawings. This is 97% of the industry and the reality we have to deal with if we want to expand our influence beyond the 3% we currently service. What are you going to wave a magic wand and make all builders and clients into the same people you might deal with on high end projects? Seriously, we need a reality check. Instead we ignore reality and complain about why people don't love us and how we should require them to do so.

    I welcome the GA State Board to come and see my projects, quiz the officials at the local Building Depts and they will say I'm providing a much higher level of design quality in the form of documentation than your average builder and they wish all drawings for houses in their jurisdiction had documents to review like mine. I know this because they tell me. If this is grounds for hanging me out to dry, then we're all doomed. I hear a lot of assumptions about why you can't, but I'm hearing a lot of excuses that aren't based in reality when it comes to designing Single Family Residences.

    -------------------------------------------
    Eric Rawlings AIA
    Owner
    Rawlings Design, Inc.
    Decatur GA
    -------------------------------------------








  • 28.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 11-02-2012 07:57 AM
    You're missing the point, Eric.  It's not always the client, contractor or lawyers that can also get architects in trouble.  It's the State Boards of Architecture.  I am not dreaming these things up.  These are things I see coming from the Boards of Architecture from at least 4 different states in which I am registered.  And architects are losing their licenses over them, or at the very least being put on suspension.  This has nothing to do with me.  I am simply reporting what Boards of Architecture are finding as negligent practice.  I have no idea what you include in your drawings.  None of my business.  And for your information, you really have no idea what I have in my drawings either, so let's not get into that, okay?  I happen to include my specifications on my drawings so they can't be "misplaced" by the GC. And the specs do a great job of covering many of the things that could otherwise get you into trouble.  And I probably do include details that perhaps some others may not.  And I don't refuse to design projects for people from all walks of life and budgets.  I can't remember ever telling a potential client No.  The point is: I never do a skimpy job, regardless of what I get paid.  And publicly suggesting that architects should do a skimpy job, in my opinion is ill-advised.

    -------------------------------------------
    Rand Soellner AIA
    Architect/Owner/Principal
    Home Architects
    Cashiers NC
    -------------------------------------------








  • 29.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 11-05-2012 08:41 AM
    You need to calm down and quit jumping to conclusions. You've made many assumptions about what I provide in the way of design solutions. When I speak, it's not in terms of what I think YOU are doing, it's based on general terms. If you design for all walks of life, then you're providing fees and services that regular people can afford. One of the most time consuming portions of the process is picking finishes, equipment, and fixtures. Shopping with people for a small addition can take more time than the drawings. When they offer to provide their own choices to greatly reduce my time spent, thus my fee, then it's a win win for everyone. State Boards are not coming to get me because I let a home owner pick their own paint or tile. For some clients, if I didn't give up this service, they simply wouldn't be able to afford me and thus hire a low rate designer. Is that what you want? Those who can't afford full service just can't renovate their homes? Until we can figure out how to be affordable to people like that, we will never be able to require stamps on residential work. I take great offense to your accusation that my drawings are "skimpy". CIty of Atlanta and City of Decatur jurisdictions say my drawings are a pleasure to review because they're clear, concise, and professional in comparison to the drawings they normally review for residences.
    -------------------------------------------
    Eric Rawlings AIA
    Owner
    Rawlings Design, Inc.
    Decatur GA
    -------------------------------------------








  • 30.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 11-02-2012 08:54 AM
    It's exasperating to see another licensed architect trying to make a case that "it's only residential" on the AIA CRAN forum.  For God's sake, man,  We are ARCHITECTS, period.  State Boards of Architecture do not make any distinctions.  The standards by which they judge all architects work is the same.  But that is another matter.  You are, whether you realize it or not, adding fuel to the fire that marginalizes what licensed architects do who design homes. 

    The AIA has historically indicated that "HOMES ARE AMONG THE MOST COMPLICATED AND DETAILED TYPES OF PROJECTS THAT AN ARCHITECT CAN DESIGN."  Your dismissing what you, yourself and what the rest of here do, as something less than mainstream commercial architecture is a disservice to yourself and our profession.  

    The standards of what we as architects do, be it commercial or residential are the same: good architecture is good architecture.  Good documentation is good documentation.  I rebel against anyone's notion (particularly from someone who is down in the trenches with me) suggesting that residential architecture should be viewed with a lesser eye for quality of work than any other type of architecture.

    -------------------------------------------
    Rand Soellner AIA
    Architect/Owner/Principal
    Home Architects
    Cashiers NC
    -------------------------------------------








  • 31.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 11-05-2012 08:18 AM
    There is a simple disconnect with Architects like yourself. You think we should force people to adjust their means and needs to fit our business models designed around wealthy clients and that's how we'll be able to service more than 3% of the wealthiest people in this country. I maintain the position that we are missing out on 97% of the work because many of us think professionalism is based on the number of drawings and specifications we create. Professionalism is based on the quality and competence of the design solution regardless of the number of drawings in addition to what the building official requires. You keep saying the State Board is coming to get me based on not knowing what I provide in my drawings. When it comes to someone who only makes $50K a year, they can't afford CA, finish/ equipment/ fixture selections. They just need a good idea and a permit. There is nothing in the GA standards of practice that says I have to provide spec books, finish schedules, or provide CA services for Residential work (or Commercial). This sounds like paranoia to me. Come on down GA Board of Architects and see what I'm doing here and tell me I'm unbecoming of Architectural Professionalism! HA!

    When I hear people talk about us self imposing requirements for drawings that well exceed the requirements for a permit, I hear loser talk. I hear fear of competing toe to toe against designers for regular people work. I hear us saying that we aren't better than them because of the design solutions, it's because we know how to write specs and draw details that designers aren't normally sophisticated enough to provide. Why can't you provide the basic information required for permits and still be "professional"? YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO FORCE REGULAR PEOPLE TO SPEND MORE THAN THEY CAN AFFORD ON DESIGN! I agree residences are some of the most complicated buildings we create and I have designed about 40 residences or additions to residences this year and I'm a sole proprietor (no interns). Some are more sophisticated than others and some require more service than others. It's all about the appropriate amount of service for the client and that's the point you're missing. You come off as an all or nothing kind of absolutist and I'd like to think that's not the case.

    -------------------------------------------
    Eric Rawlings AIA
    Owner
    Rawlings Design, Inc.
    Decatur GA
    -------------------------------------------








  • 32.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 11-06-2012 08:02 AM
    Therein lies the problem.  This is the perfect example of why the average American can not only afford an Architect, but more so would rather not want to deal with one.  Architects have this stigma or arrogance, 'my way or the highway' mentality, and frankly they/we cannot even agree to disagree.  We all have different tastes, and inspirations, as do our homeowners.  Better yet, why contractors don't even want to use them/us either. Remember, we have many layers of clients.

    What homeowners see is some very capable design/builders in the residential world, that honestly can design and construct better than some architects out there.  Why would they go through the added layer?  Clearly the AIA is not about supporting the small one man shops, but that is why most Architects would consider themselves entrepreneurs.  If you get the job done and done well, we still live in a world where our society will reward that with referrals and return business.  

    It isn't up to others to find a way to get us more business, it is up to ourselves to strive and grow.  Sell yourself in your market and you'll be happy and successful.

    For crying out loud, if we didn't get enough of the 'campaigning' and 'he said-she said' on the radio, tv, internet and newspaper from this darned election, we can just turn to the AIA web forums to get ourselves a little more.  Remember we are all here to work together for the common good, and if homeowners aren't already turned off from the glass box that the AIA and current trends 'glorify,' then they should be by the simple fact we sound like kids arguing on a playground.  

    -------------------------------------------
    Bruce Mohns Jr - AIA
    Northwest Builders, Inc.
    Cameron WI
    -------------------------------------------








  • 33.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 11-07-2012 10:41 AM
    Lack of affordability, arrogance, "my way or the highway" mentality, not even agreeing to disagree and the superior abilities of non-licensed designers are not facts, but misconceptions based on negative stereotypes perpetuated by those who have something to gain from the deception. All are surmountable with the right individual and collective PR.

    -------------------------------------------
    Sean Catherall AIA
    Integrated Property Services
    Bluffdale UT
    -------------------------------------------








  • 34.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 11-08-2012 09:26 AM
    Both Sean and Bruce are right. We sound like an old married couple arguing about agreeing. We all would like to see the same end result, but we senselessly argue about how to get there. Look, stereotypes exist for a reason. When you are the licensed professional who charges considerably more for your services, you have raised the bar of expectations very, very high. If you don't meet these high expectations, despite the fact that you did a better job than the status quo, the perception is that you failed miserably. When you're the amateur, and let's face it our sad, Honey Boo Boo, reality show of a culture is fascinated with the amateur, then you have the lowest of expectations and all you have to do is a slightly above average job and thus the perception is victory over the over priced professional. Our society is enamored by the idea that you can just skip ahead without putting in the time. Our new generation of guitars don't even have strings anymore, they have buttons. Now you can just plug your guitar into the TV and you don't have to learn music theory, you don't need talent, you're an instant Guitar Hero. I remember when it was incredibly cool to be able to rip out an Eddie Van Halen solo the old fashioned way, by actually learning to play it. Now they say, "Eddie Van Who? Guitar solo? What's that?"

    This is why I learned to change my business model to be more competitive. Average people don't need all of our services and we keep insisting that they do, so they go elsewhere. They need Target and we offer Saks Fifth Ave. Yes, it would be better if we could pick out all their paint colors, tiles, refrigerators, cabinets, light fixtures, and do CA, but when you're talking about a renovation for single mom making $50K a year, you have to be realistic about what she can really afford. Is is better that she hire a hack who will hack up her house or is it better to let go of some of the unnecessary, time consuming portions of the work that the builder will convince her to change anyway so you can give her a fee she can afford? For her to fork over four figures vs five figures on a five figure income, you bet her expectations will be so high that you and God himself probably won't meet them. If your price is competitive and your solutions are light years ahead of your amateur competitor, she will love you and sing your praises. The object in business is not to be double the price of your competitor while doing double the work. Most clients will go for the solution that gets the job done for less $$$. It's the economic principle of Substitution. The object when providing higher quality is to price your fee a little higher while spending the same amount or less time than your competitor. If you're a competent Architect, you should be able to get more done in less time, while running the amateur Designers out of your area like I have.

    Simply put, we're talented designers, just terrible business people.

    -------------------------------------------
    Eric Rawlings AIA
    Owner
    Rawlings Design, Inc.
    Decatur GA
    -------------------------------------------








  • 35.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 11-09-2012 09:28 AM
    I couldn't agree with you more.

    Does anyone at the AIA monitor these posts?  The AIA is eternally asking for input, but it seems fruitless to ask again for Marketing Efforts to adjust the misconceptions that abound about the architectural profession.  My hope is that the AIA could put it's efforts into actively publishing the benefits to all Project Initiators to hire an architect. I've seen TV Ads supporting the Real Estate Profession.  Nothing for an Architect? And, I'm afraid the general impression of the architect as an esthetic snob is inadvertently supported by all the Home Improvement shows that tie the client to the real services of the Real Estate Agent, The Talented Contractor and the Staging Designer.
    Luckily, This Old House includes an architect and his services in the mix of professionals required for a complete project.  There projects are at a high level and may miss the smaller project category.

    Can't the AIA interject the role of the architect here?  How about approaching  HGTV?  Do we not have a producer/director that may be sympathetic to our cause? Is it the reality of the process is so painful that it makes for terrible TV?  Too long, too many iterations?

    Who at the AIA might be tasked with this effort?  Does anyone know?

    -------------------------------------------
    Victoria Hage AIA
    Victoria Hage Architect
    Mamaroneck NY
    -------------------------------------------








  • 36.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 11-09-2012 01:20 PM
    Hello Victoria,
    You are saying what I have been advocating for months now:  that the CRAN-AIA needs funding from the AIA budget to pay for advertising and public awareness programs.  For what?

    1.  to make the public aware that there are REAL licensed architects available to design their homes.
    2.  that there are good reasons that anyone might wish to consider having an architect design their home.

    You would be surprised at how effectively the notion of an "architect" (what we do) has been and is being systematically erased in our culture.  I know people that before meeting me, thought that builders just built things as they went and there was no planning or design work accomplished prior to this. In other words, that good residential architecture "just happened."  Yes, this lack of knowledge in the public is rampant and we should get on this.  In this regard, all CRAN AIA licensed architects should bend the ears of AIA National Directors to place on the agenda of AIA national meetings: the subject of allocating some of the national AIA budget to the CRAN to specifically fund the public awareness program indicated above.  I know that I have done this and I have found some of these directors to be interested and responsive.  You all should do the same: that's how things get done in the AIA.

    No one at HGTV is going to give us free advertising or do anything to help real residential architects.  They are some of the worst at erasing "architects" and replacing them with "designers."  Or even worse: "builder-who thinks-he-knows good-design,"  or real estate "person" (not even a licensed broker, so they are working on erasing all licensed professionals, it seems) who thinks-they-know- how-to-design.  I am sure that they would be happy to take our money, however for paid ads.  Part of the issue here, is that  TV ads are expensive, hence the reason that all of us CRAN AIA members need to try to create programs to help fund this public awareness program and convince AIA Directors to become sympathetic to the residential architects within the ranks of the AIA.  I created one and am working on it with others.  I do not have any statistics, buy I will make a guess that perhaps 25%+ of all AIA architects do in fact practice residential architecture?  I could be wrong...am I?  Does anyone know?  If correct, this is a huge segment of the AIA that is being under-served, and I for one would like to see even a little bit allocated to the CRAN to fund public awareness programs Specifically addressing residential architects. 

    Other CRAN-AIA people have proposed having reality TV shows featuring REAL architects helping real people solve problems and deliver good value.  This is a Great idea, however, how is that funded?  That would be a huge effort and I for one, would support such initiatives.  Once again: that takes money.

    What doesn't take a huge bunch of cash would be YouTube videos.  Establishing a CRAN - AIA channel (has this been done?) and creating videos and posting them there, (many) then having CRAN AIA members blogging about this on their own websites, and then producing posts linking to their blogs and the YouTube videos.  If ALL of us did this, continuously, Twitter, LinkedIn and Facebook would be filled with links to these residential architect videos, explaining what we do.  The thought is that: hopefully if people know we exist and do things to produce wonderful homes, perhaps they might spend a little time trying to find us and engage us to design homes for them.

    And regarding monitoring of these posts: to my knowledge, the only entity employed by the AIA to monitor our posts on this forum is Kathleen Simpson, who has informed me that she is administrative staff.  No one, to my knowledge, actively sifts through all our comments and channels them to AIA Directors for immediate action and funding.  Nope.  Doesn't happen that way.  Those whom are passionate about issues have to actually do more than write an occasional post or gripe.  They have to reach out and find some AIA National Directors and convince them that what interests you, should interest others, and that you do more than moan: you actually propose something concrete to Solve the problem and that you would in fact participate or lead the effort to help make the change.  Then the AIA Director, if you've managed to convince him/her/they may agree enough with you to put your item on the agenda for a future Directors meeting, where it will be discussed and either tabled for future discussion or acted on with people assigned to a subcommittee to begin investigating what to do about the situation.  At least, that's how I understand the process.

    -------------------------------------------
    Rand Soellner AIA
    Architect/Owner/Principal
    Home Architects
    Cashiers NC
    -------------------------------------------








  • 37.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 11-12-2012 11:05 PM

    Hi Rand and Victoria

    Having been on the National Board just about a year now, I thought I'd take a stab at some of the questions posed by you and Victoria:

    1 The National Board is made up of Architect volunteers.  None are 'assigned' to monitor discussions here, but all are active in many realms - including small residential projects.  Our current president, Jeff Potter, has a firm with fewer staff than you have fingers on your hand; and our incoming president has fewer than two hands. The Board includes solo practitioners, members of large firms, academics, institutional and government leaders and so on.  It's about as diverse as the profession itself.  Some are here - like myself - not to monitor but to be engaged in the dialogue, to learn, and to share; probably not unlike you.
    2 My observation of how things become priorities at national is best exemplified in a resolution that was adopted at the last convention that has directed the organization to re-evaluate resources: where they come from, where they go, with specific focus on the challenges faced by components in providing services to their members.  This initiative started with a couple of people in a small component, who contacted their regional director through their component.  Note that every AIA member has a component, and a regional director.

    With a little help, the resolution made it to the National board, where it was debated and discussed.  With that vetting, it was revised by the proponents, and came back to the Board which recommended members support it.  When it went to the convention floor for action by the membership, it passed with a large majority.  Over the next couple of years, this effort may well shape the financial underpinnings of the institute nationally.

    Each board member is assigned to one or more committees, which work throughout the year.  My main committee is tackling the Repositioning initiative.  Over the last year, this endeavor has collected over 30,000 data points - from members, from clients, from allied professionals, from students and the public.  We have solid statistically meaningful data on the perceptions and reality of how we perceive ourselves, how we are perceived by others, and the disconnects.  How we take that information and shape it into action is on the table for 2013.  I hope you find the energy to engaging in this process, as it has the potential to Reposition not just architects, but Architecture itself - and the AIA along with it. 

    Cheers
     
    -------------------------------------------
    Michael Malinowski AIA
    AIA Director - California Region
    Applied Architecture, Inc.
    Sacramento CA
    -------------------------------------------








  • 38.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 11-13-2012 07:40 AM
    Okay, so what I have been told sounds about right, then.  Michael, yours is always a voice of reason in a storm.  And thank you for undertaking the UNPAID tasks as a National AIA Director.  (Bet not many AIA members knew that).  And, sir, for what it is worth, I once again give you my input, in hopes that this finds its way to the National Directors' agenda for consideration and hopefully approval:

    I hereby request, on behalf of all CRAN AIA member, that a portion of the national AIA budget be allocated each year to the CRAN, for specific use as follows:
    1.  To fund a Public Awareness program to help all people in America's population to become aware that real, licensed architects exist that can and will design their homes.
    2.  That there are good reasons for anyone to have an architect design their home.

    That's it.  I have seen, during my time on this planet, that not many people in the mainstream of life even know that architects exist that would design their homes.  And further, what some reasons might be for someone to consider such a thing.  This simple awareness program can have both paid advertising and unpaid features to it (such as social media).  I would be willing to chair such a committee, or at the very least, in the AIA's judgement, participate in this program, so I am not just griping.  I am willing to actually do the work to help this happen.  All we need is some tangible funding.  Thank you for your consideration. 

    -------------------------------------------
    Rand Soellner AIA
    Architect/Owner/Principal
    Home Architects
    Cashiers NC
    -------------------------------------------








  • 39.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 11-13-2012 08:28 AM
    I found a brochure on AIBD's website called a  Guide to Residential Design Specialists and Key to design Excellence.    It sounds like they are emulating the AIA code of ethics:

    "The AIBD® designation following a building designer's name is an
    important credential to note. It's a testament to an individual's professional
    certification and commitment to design excellence and adherence
    to a discriminating professional code of ethics.
    "

    -------------------------------------------
    Frank Marshall AIA
    Architect
    SMB&R Inc
    Camp Hill PA
    -------------------------------------------








  • 40.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 11-14-2012 08:39 AM
    Uh-huh.  And does it indicate that they went to a major university for 5 to 8 years and earned a real architectural degree?  And apprenticed under stern LICENSED architects for another decade, and completed the NCARB program?  Passed a grueling multiple-day State architectural licensing test, applied for and received a State architectural registration?  And since then, have been taking about 18 architecturally-certified CEUs every year?  Don't think so. 

    Not woofing on you, man.  It just burns me that other entities MSU  (Make Stuff Up).  Perhaps they should put that after their members' names: Fred Simpson, MSU. 

    -------------------------------------------
    Rand Soellner AIA
    Architect/Owner/Principal
    Home Architects
    Cashiers NC
    -------------------------------------------








  • 41.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 11-12-2012 09:26 AM
    Now that would be counter productive for HGTV wouldn't it?  Their entire premise is resolving items that were done improperly from the onset.  How would Mike Holmes be able to keep a job if an Architect designed and oversaw the construction of a project, assuming the licensed individual did it properly?

    HGTV exists because there are too many under licensed, not insured, and horrible contractors out there.  In a perfect world they wouldn't need to show all of these different shows that exhibit terrible work if our 'regulators' did their jobs in the first place.

    I will say this, the stricter the codes get, the more and more we will see these types of shows springing up.
    Our regulations have empowered the homeowner to turn to these contractors who will avoid inspections, code reviews etc.  

    How many of us have gone to a jobsite and seen things hidden or not completed as per code because the contractor doesn't believe in it.  I've been told too many times by contractors that what is on paper is not always the right way.  How should we as Architects have to darn near become a doctor (5+ yrs of school, 3+ of IDP, and 1+ for ARE) to become licensed and any 'Joe' can be a contractor. This whole discussion is not even scratching the surface, because it is not always the un-licensed designers, it is more so the contractors.  That is one reason I have gone the design/build route, to see if I can have a bigger impact.  But this route scares the heck out of most Architects, and I think that is an issue, the dis-connect with every party involved to make the clients project to come to fruition.  We are all in this together, and we need to get our house in order before we can try and solve the rest. 

    Then we can address the double standard that the Nanny State has established, by only holding certain fields accountable.  

    The codes are only getting stricter and the reason the codes are doing this is to make up for the contractors that ignore them in the first place.  It is like gun laws, the criminals will still ignore them, no matter how strict they make them.

    -------------------------------------------
    Bruce Mohns AIA
    Northwest Builders, Inc.
    Cameron WI
    -------------------------------------------








  • 42.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 11-13-2012 07:31 AM
    Bruce, my hat's off to you, sir.  Having the guts to become a contractor, yourself.  The way of the Master Builder.  God bless you. 

    -------------------------------------------
    Rand Soellner AIA
    Architect/Owner/Principal
    Home Architects
    Cashiers NC
    -------------------------------------------








  • 43.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 11-08-2012 10:07 AM


    -------------------------------------------
    Perry Cofield AIA
    Design Ways & Means Architects
    Arlington VA
    -------------------------------------------

    As a profession we just don't get it. Lawyers have specialties. Even a subcomponent of a legal area will have an attorney refer you to another lawyer with more expertise.  And they almost NEVER knock one another, rather they praise their cohorts, and you may never know their private opinion.  No point going into the delta in income!  So why can't residential architects get over the fact that we have custom architects, production home architects, modern, vernacular, decorative, you name it?  If we are this insecure as business people, well.......



  • 44.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 11-06-2012 08:46 AM
    Again, you keep missing the point and trying to hijack the purpose of this thread to support other agendas.  I DO support designing for 100% of the population and I have never turned down a project because of fee.  Okay?  Clear on that?  Also, like I said, I don't know what is in your documents nor do you know what is in mine.  Okay?  I just do not think it wise to advocate documents that do not adequately detail and indicate what is going on in the project.  I am Not saying yours don't, okay?  But saying things like "all you need is a good idea" IMPLIES that the documents may not adequately document the solution.  Perhaps yours do. Alright?  Not critiquing what you do, so settle down.  I am responding to what you are saying, and the implications of that.  That's all.  Getting into suggestions as to what documents you think others provide that are not required in your opinion, is supposition.

    My point is that REGARDLESS of the fees we choose to accept, we should all do a thorough and good job.  That's it.  Any licensed architect out there disagree with that?

    Hey, now here's something constructive that might come out of all this posturing on both our parts...How about having you and me and any other architects out there monitoring this, come up with a list of the documents that you think that we all should be providing?  Of course, this is going to vary quite a lot, based on whether you are renovating a room or doing a custom home design from scratch.  How about that?  Like to take a crack at what you think constitutes a proper set of documents?

    -------------------------------------------
    Rand Soellner AIA
    Architect/Owner/Principal
    Home Architects
    Cashiers NC
    -------------------------------------------








  • 45.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 10-31-2012 02:17 PM
    Eric Rawlings - How low should we go?

    In order to jump start my entrepreneurial endeavor, I have joined the NAHB to network with local builders.  I am the only architect in the group. Upon introducing myself as an architect, the first thing I am typically asked is: "How much do you charge for a set of plans".  One builder, who  is very respected in this community, told me he typically pays about $500.00 for a set of plans.  Would you be able to put together a set of drawings for that amount?

    In another experience, the owner of a lumber yard called me.  He had previously employed an in-hose draftsman who he had to let go of, due to low volume.  He had a customer who had purchased a lot (with plans produced by a competing lumberyard) These were narrow lots and theirs was tree feet narrower due to an easement.  Hence they typical plan would not fit on it and would have to have three feet trimmed out (not a no-brainer, mind you) I met with the owners.  They game me an 8-1/2 x 11 floor plan (no elevations or sections) and told me the owner of the lumberyard said they should be able to get a full set off drawings for around $700 to $900.00!  of course they wanted a bunch of changes to their plan too. 

    I showed them a garage addition I had done that took 44 hours and explained that even with a competitive hourly rate, I could not produce something for $900.00  They left my office, with the wife in tears. I contacted the lumberyard owner, went over to his office where he happened to be meeting with the couple. I asked to see a set of drawings that his in-house guy had produced previously.  Floor Plan, Foundation Plan, Exterior Elevations all in two sheets!  No notes on the elevations or plans!  In the title block was a fine print disclaimer saying that the drawings were "Not for construction" and for "design purposes only", absolving him of all liability.  When I asked about this, he gave me the run around.  I then explained to the couple that as an architect, I could not put such a disclaimer on a set of drawings (meant for permitting and construction) .  I explained that this was akin to asking a surgeon to reduce his fees by 80% and then have him put some disclaimer saying he was not liable for the outcome.  The doctor would still be liable!

    Yes, the lumberyard can produce a set of drawings "for free" when they sell $150,000.00 worth of materials to a home owner.  Their design is typically of poor quality, but most people do not care.  They will spend more on their kitchen and baths in terms of design time and the K/B designers will make money from the upcharge of cabinets and finishes. 

    Until residential design is regulated, residential architects will have to compete with bottom feeder builders and lumberyards who offer "free" plans.  If the AIA does not see regulation of single family homes as a priority, it behooves residential architects to find (or start) a professional organization that advocates on our behalf!


    -------------------------------------------
    Edward Shannon
    Waterloo IA
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  • 46.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 11-01-2012 08:54 AM
    Amen, Edward.  Well said.  Exactly what is going on in the world today.  We are like Rodney Dangerfield: "We don't get no respect!"  That is why the AIA needs to have a public awareness campaign to educate them about 2 things:
    1.  that REAL architects existing that are willing and able to design their homes.
    2.  that there are good reasons why anyone might want to have an architect design their home.

    -------------------------------------------
    Rand Soellner AIA
    Architect/Owner/Principal
    Home Architects
    Cashiers NC
    -------------------------------------------








  • 47.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 11-02-2012 10:35 AM
    Rand,
    I do appreciate your advocacy, but I think you're not seeing the big picture. This isn't a respect issue. We are one stubborn, unrealistic group of injured artists who clearly don't understand business very well. I'd love to see Architect's stamps being required for residences, but this will never happen before we can prove that we can fill the demand. As I've mentioned several times, we're only designing about 3% of the houses. Do the math. We need to insert ourselves into this sector and grow our numbers and influence first. Average people don't understand what we can bring to the table because we only service the table of wealthy people. We seem to only want projects we can control freak. The commercial and high end custom home sectors are maxed out, but there is a huge amount of room to grow in the untapped regular residential market, especially spec houses, that we're ignoring. We speak of this sector with such elitist contempt. The things I hear people on this site say about bad builders, bad clients, etc happen to make up 97% of the industry. What are we going to shame them into spending more than they can afford on us or make great design affordable to them? You can't force people to respect you. You have to earn it!

    My business model revolves around the concept of providing an appropriate level of service for the client and I have proven that regular people can afford my services without compromising my worth (in terms of $$$/hr). Every time I explain how it works, I get nothing but skepticism. I get accusations that I'm providing services unbecoming of an Architect because I provide limited services to those who can't afford the full package. There is a HUGE difference between being negligent and frugally efficient. I graciously share my successful business model with all, which no Architect has ever done for me. 

    Consider in 2006 there were:

    320,000 custom homes built (this includes home owner, builder, designer, and plan book competition)
    170,000 commercial buildings built
    1,300,000 speculative houses built

    TOTAL BUILDINGS IN AMERICA BY DESIGNER
    220,000 buildings were designed by Architects (assuming 3% of custom/spec homes + all commercial)
    1,570,000 buildings designed by amateurs

    I FIND THIS TO BE HUMILIATING!!! THIS IS OUR FAULT, NOT THEIRS!!! WE NEED TO ADJUST OUR ATTITUDES AND BUSINESS MODELS TO MAKE OURSELVES USEFUL TO THIS SOCIETY. WE MUST ADAPT AND EVOLVE OR WE WILL BE NATURALLY SELECTED!!!


    -------------------------------------------
    Eric Rawlings AIA
    Owner
    Rawlings Design, Inc.
    Decatur GA
    -------------------------------------------








  • 48.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 10-30-2012 04:37 PM
    This discussion could move to the concept of hiring architects with an expertise for the particular building type instead of clients thinking all architects are equally qualified, but I guess that that is actually a separate discussion.

    -------------------------------------------
    Douglas Gallow AIA
    Lifespan Design Studio
    Loveland OH
    -------------------------------------------








  • 49.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 10-31-2012 07:17 AM
    Hi Douglas,  I think that is the reason for CRAN and for the HKC: its intent is to focus on the issues facing residential architects (And when I say architects, that's what I mean, for any unlicensed (i.e.: non-architects) people). These 2 forums exist for those of us grappling with the situations we face now, have dealt with in the past and looking forward, that we see ahead of us.
    And you are correct: architects cannot possibly be equal in their knowledge of building types.
    I would no more attempt to design a nuclear power plant than a power plant architect should try to undertake a highly customized and detailed home.  Either one of us attempting to immediately do what the other specializes in would stumble and fall.  It takes time to learn. 

    The 2012 edition of the IRC is 904 pages; I know; it's sitting right here on my desk.  And the 2012 IECC has 90 pages of Commercial and another 48 pages of Residential provisions. And none of this includes what local AHJ (Authorities Having Jurisdiction) might provide as amendments. Even with all the tabs I have attached to the edges of scores of page subjects (over a hundred) it takes time to understand how to apply these requirement and to practically included them into what the client expects, which is a great design.

    -------------------------------------------
    Rand Soellner AIA
    Architect/Owner/Principal
    Home Architects
    Cashiers NC
    -------------------------------------------








  • 50.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 11-01-2012 02:55 PM
    Remember Polly Adler admonished, " A House Is Not a Home."

    I have trouble, particularly with builders, calling single family dwellings, homes - they build "houses."  These structures do not become "homes" until someone moves in and makes it their home. Even then the structure, is still a house, it is just the shell portion of the "home." Home includes the family, its possessions, the family values, etc.

    Only the most affected snob would say something like, " I live in the yellow home on the corner." I think normal people would just say, " I live in the yellow house on the corner."

    Realtors and builders are simply being pretentious when they call a house a home. They think it sounds so much more appealing.

    I have noticed in this conversation, several of our architect colleagues have referred to houses as "homes." Let's not lower our definitions to the affected, misleading jargon of real estate salesmen & saleswomen.

    With that said, I would give license to an architect who was commissioned to design a dwelling for a family, knowing their lifestyle and needs, then he/she might be correct useing the word home.


    -------------------------------------------
    Richard Linderman AIA
    Principal
    The Linderman Group Architects, Inc.
    Media PA
    -------------------------------------------








  • 51.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 10-29-2012 03:05 PM
    Anyone can have a good idea & a good design.  The licensed architect is in a position to deliver design in a professional way from concept to occupancy.  Architects can be brought in at the beginning or anywhere along the process where their unique training, experience, and skills are desired or required.   Excluding the visionary owner, the do-it-yourselfer, the talented carpenter, the artist, or the freelance designer brings down the number of good ideas and would make our world more ugly, not less. 

    -------------------------------------------
    Amber Westerman
    Amber Westerman Building Design
    Dodgeville WI
    -------------------------------------------








  • 52.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 10-24-2012 09:38 AM
    Well said Edward. I too know members of AIBD who can produce nice designs and good sets of construction documents. They are often in the limited service category as myself and others such as Eric Rawlings have been advocating. If architects in general were more flexible in the range of services that they provide, then they can serve more clients including builders. I do question your statement:

    Emphasizing "Custom" is not the answer to the sprawling blight that is currently being produced! 


    I think I understand your intention above, but I'd like to point out that I think every home owner wants a custom home.  Builders often emphasize customization. Although my company offers stock plans and custom designs, most people actually prefer something custom that they can call their own. We developed Adapt-A-SunPlan which it allows people to have a custom design without not only the expense of a custom design (although sometimes not that much less) and maybe more importantly they can save time in working with us.  Even when customers can afford a limited service custom design (really about everyone,) they still choose to start with an existing design. I think it has to do with a combination of inability to articulate what they want in a home and discomfort with a perceived risk in going with something totally custom. I try to communicate how much better a custom design can be especially in terms of right-sizing a design (and therefore resulting in construction cost savings), but I think I have resigned myself to the fact that there are many customers who are simply uncomfortable withe process.  Let's not leave the custom part out completely.

    -------------------------------------------
    Debra Rucker Coleman, AIA
    Architect
    Sun Plans Inc.
    Mobile, AL

    -------------------------------------------




  • 53.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 11-06-2012 10:27 AM
    Let me give a specific example here:

    In 2009 I was approached to design a 3500 sf home on a vacant land.  I have extensive experience in the approval process and in residential design and construction.  Because was not much going on in my office at the time i decided to charge $4,200 for responsible  services that included the design of the house and the construction drawings required to obtain a building permit and competitive bidding from contractors in New Jersey.  My services included one meeting with the town planner (because it was recommended by the town) and attending to one variance meeting.

    While the owner appreciated by advice and obvious experience, they "took my advice" and went with someone who charged $2000 for a design.  This person was unlicensed doing architectural work part time.

    Several months later this owner called me to tell me that they were having issues with the town and if I could sign and seal the drawings from the other person.  I did not agree to do that.  Eight months later, they were still going in front of the planning board and they kept getting denied for silly issues that I would have been able to handle with no problem.  

    My fees were not unreasonable.  The scope of work was limited to just what they needed to obtain a building permit.  I was undercharging and they found some incompetent draftsperson for half of my fees.

    In my experience, people do not value our services because they are not informed.  Most of the time they think that architectural plans are one of the obstacles that their local government puts on their way to do something that they have the right to do on the first place.

    I could go on an on....

    -------------------------------------------
    Genaro Salierno AIA
    Principal
    Genaro Salierno Architect, LLC
    Verona NJ
    -------------------------------------------








  • 54.  RE:For: Architects Desiging Homes. Against: other entities "certifying" "designers"

    Posted 11-06-2012 12:01 PM
    Did anyone attend the AIA convention this year?

    If not or you didn't attend the General Session where the Gold Medal was awarded to Steven Holl, FAIA (as the result of the Award), then you might missed the fact that he said (and, I paraphase slightly here, I'm sure); "...well, I've been very lucky as I didn't have to design more than two wood framed structures earliy in my career...".

    That should give up the elitist crow...  ...ditto Mr. Potter!

    Home, house, Single Family Dwelling.... ...I love it. Keep up the good work!

    -------------------------------------------
    Stephen Dunakoskie AIA
    Principal
    Stephen Dunakoskie, Consulting
    Leesburg VA
    -------------------------------------------