Project Delivery

Stephen Dunakoskie, in the preceeding message of the thread, mentions .pdf as the typical electronic media for drawings.  An office I worked with a number of years ago used .dwfs for distribution and exchange.  The files were much smaller and mark-up was much quicker and CADD intuitive.  They relied on VoloView/Design Review for drawing mark-up to send to owners and consultants and for general distribution (the reprographics shop made prints from the .dwfs), but lately, all the firms I have encountered seem to be using .pdf.  Does anyone still use .dwfs?  If so, what advantages and disadvantages have you encountered?  Is the format usable in other drafting software besides AutoDesk?

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Roger Retzlaff AIA
Project Architect
Berners-Schober Associates, Inc.
Green Bay WI
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Our office uses both formats extensively for both Contract Documents, drawings and specifications, and for Shop Drawings, RFI's Supplemental Drawigns and other Submittals.  The advantages of .dwf over .pdf is that the thread of comments and corrections from multiple reviews can be recorded easily.  The other large advantage is that .dwf's can have 3D REVIT models converted back and forth for use of others.  The DWF file allows for measurements of length and area and recognition of materials and other content which is pretty useful for a contractor or supplier to use for take-offs.  The 3D capability allows for others to move the model around to view from various angles to better understand the design.

PDF's have come a long way and can also allow 3D views as well as markup comment threads.  PDF's are more stable format than the DWF's so that is one advantage.  Also the PDF's are now not larger file sizes than the DWF's so using them for email or other electronic transfers.

Both DWF and PDF are better formats for limited access to the design model since multiple users including the Owner, Contractors, Subcontractors and Suppliers can view and add comments without having to have the CAD software.  In fact, Windows 7 now allows you to open a DWFX without having the Design Review software.

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John Sausen AIA
Architect
The Omni Associates - Architects, Inc.
Fairmont WV
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Original Message:
Sent: 10-17-2011 09:20
From: Roger Retzlaff
Subject: Electronic Drawing Drawing Formats

Stephen Dunakoskie, in the preceeding message of the thread, mentions .pdf as the typical electronic media for drawings.  An office I worked with a number of years ago used .dwfs for distribution and exchange.  The files were much smaller and mark-up was much quicker and CADD intuitive.  They relied on VoloView/Design Review for drawing mark-up to send to owners and consultants and for general distribution (the reprographics shop made prints from the .dwfs), but lately, all the firms I have encountered seem to be using .pdf.  Does anyone still use .dwfs?  If so, what advantages and disadvantages have you encountered?  Is the format usable in other drafting software besides AutoDesk?

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Roger Retzlaff AIA
Project Architect
Berners-Schober Associates, Inc.
Green Bay WI
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The dwf format works well for consultant coordination and those savy with the CAD and Autodesk software, but the majority of our clients want Adobe friendly documents.  We have tried using the dwf format, but found it time consuming when we had to have the phone conversations about how to use the dwf reading software to clients, contractors, consultants, etc.  Everyone is pdf savy and we don't have to have the conversation on how to use the files.  Just much quicker for management issues.

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David Cameron AIA
Architect
Cameron Aslaksen Architects, LLC
Reedsburg WI
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Original Message:
Sent: 10-17-2011 09:20
From: Roger Retzlaff
Subject: Electronic Drawing Drawing Formats

Stephen Dunakoskie, in the preceeding message of the thread, mentions .pdf as the typical electronic media for drawings.  An office I worked with a number of years ago used .dwfs for distribution and exchange.  The files were much smaller and mark-up was much quicker and CADD intuitive.  They relied on VoloView/Design Review for drawing mark-up to send to owners and consultants and for general distribution (the reprographics shop made prints from the .dwfs), but lately, all the firms I have encountered seem to be using .pdf.  Does anyone still use .dwfs?  If so, what advantages and disadvantages have you encountered?  Is the format usable in other drafting software besides AutoDesk?

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Roger Retzlaff AIA
Project Architect
Berners-Schober Associates, Inc.
Green Bay WI
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While not an expert on AutoCAD, my understanding is that dwf format is theirs. Unless I am wrong that precludes transfer to any other program.

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Burton L. Roslyn, FAIA
President
Roslyn Consultants, LLC
Roslyn Heights, New York
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Original Message:
Sent: 10-17-2011 09:20
From: Roger Retzlaff
Subject: Electronic Drawing Drawing Formats

Stephen Dunakoskie, in the preceeding message of the thread, mentions .pdf as the typical electronic media for drawings.  An office I worked with a number of years ago used .dwfs for distribution and exchange.  The files were much smaller and mark-up was much quicker and CADD intuitive.  They relied on VoloView/Design Review for drawing mark-up to send to owners and consultants and for general distribution (the reprographics shop made prints from the .dwfs), but lately, all the firms I have encountered seem to be using .pdf.  Does anyone still use .dwfs?  If so, what advantages and disadvantages have you encountered?  Is the format usable in other drafting software besides AutoDesk?

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Roger Retzlaff AIA
Project Architect
Berners-Schober Associates, Inc.
Green Bay WI
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Roger,

DWF vs PDF comes down to the adoption of a standard or more appropriate the proliferation of a standard.  PDF's are more widely used and as such the software to view or even manipulate pdf's is available to many whether they are in the AEC industry or not.  DWF's were, and I think might still be, proprietary to AutoDesk.  They provide their viewer as a free download.  It is a format that is specifically designed for AutoCad documents and has many advantages when you use the free viewer.  The downside is that AutoDesk has been somewhat sketchy with the free viewer, first calling is Voloview, providing free and pay for versions and then switching to Design Review etc. so that the novice is not really sure what they are suppose to get for which solution.

PDF has become a standard so much so that some refer to it as electronic paper.  Most of the time you do not need to download a viewer as it is embedded in the application you are using to surf the net.  If not Adobe Reader is available as a quick download.  But the big factor is the most people know what a pdf is when they see the file extension.  I also beleive that pdf is here to stay and it is an effective archiving tool not to mention publishing tool for both drawings and project manuals.

If the project team agrees to work in DV and everyone has Design Review I think there is some advantages.  But with applications like Bluebeam etc. I think pdf can be leveraged to work just as effectively.

When publishing 3D models I believe the equation changes somewhat, but I think that is a different thread.  Once the design is complete and the AEC collaboration is done publishing to a pdf for distribution and bidding seams to be more the standard for the construction side of the industry.

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James Briglia AIA
Cary NC
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Original Message:
Sent: 10-17-2011 09:20
From: Roger Retzlaff
Subject: Electronic Drawing Drawing Formats

Stephen Dunakoskie, in the preceeding message of the thread, mentions .pdf as the typical electronic media for drawings.  An office I worked with a number of years ago used .dwfs for distribution and exchange.  The files were much smaller and mark-up was much quicker and CADD intuitive.  They relied on VoloView/Design Review for drawing mark-up to send to owners and consultants and for general distribution (the reprographics shop made prints from the .dwfs), but lately, all the firms I have encountered seem to be using .pdf.  Does anyone still use .dwfs?  If so, what advantages and disadvantages have you encountered?  Is the format usable in other drafting software besides AutoDesk?

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Roger Retzlaff AIA
Project Architect
Berners-Schober Associates, Inc.
Green Bay WI
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I have used .dwf's and definitely prefer them over pdf's. From Autocad or Revit (and likely others) you can export to .dwf and then open these files with Autodesk's Design Review program, a free download for anyone. This program allows users (in-house or external) to make markups which can then be imported back into the original design program as an overlay. Then within the design program these markups can be marked as completed and exported back to the reviewer who will see them as though they were marked with a highlighter. This effectively removes the expensive and often neglected hardcopy from the review process, to be replaced with a digital copy that can be accessed from anywhere, and keeps a record of who made changes to it and when.

The other benefit to .dwf files is that information within the model (i.e. information about a wall) can be accessed through the .dwf, as well as accurate dimensions and areas. There are several videos available on YouTube about Design Review that are worth looking at.

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Tim Duffy AIA
Project Architect
Hammel, Green & Abrahamson, Inc.
Roseville CA
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Original Message:
Sent: 10-17-2011 09:20
From: Roger Retzlaff
Subject: Electronic Drawing Drawing Formats

Stephen Dunakoskie, in the preceeding message of the thread, mentions .pdf as the typical electronic media for drawings.  An office I worked with a number of years ago used .dwfs for distribution and exchange.  The files were much smaller and mark-up was much quicker and CADD intuitive.  They relied on VoloView/Design Review for drawing mark-up to send to owners and consultants and for general distribution (the reprographics shop made prints from the .dwfs), but lately, all the firms I have encountered seem to be using .pdf.  Does anyone still use .dwfs?  If so, what advantages and disadvantages have you encountered?  Is the format usable in other drafting software besides AutoDesk?

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Roger Retzlaff AIA
Project Architect
Berners-Schober Associates, Inc.
Green Bay WI
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