Project Delivery

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Practice Management Member Conversations and Project Delivery .
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I am presently looking at a re-roofing of a Museum project. Th eown er is asking for a "zero - water infiltration" clause in the docuemnts. Is anyone aware of a definition of "zero - water inflitration" for drawing and specs. In addition address inforcement during construction. 

The project also will require an experienced roofing contractor. Beyond the requiring certified roofing  installers by the manufacturer, 5 years or more experience with product and similar type complicated roofs, and proper bonding and insurance, what additonal requirements may be added to help enssure a qualified roofing contractor. 

Any responce or experience with the above questions woudl be grealy appreiciated.

Thank you in advance for your attention.  
-------------------------------------------
Richard Shanahan AIA
Richard M. Shanahan Architects
Bozeman MT
richard@shanahanarchitects.com
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I am not aware of a "zero-water infiltration" clause, however as a member of a church facility committee, we requested a "zero ponding" clause on a Firestone TPO roof for a large 1950s flat-roofed church education wing.  
Ponding was a concern because the existing parapet was only 8" high and we could not
add enough tapered insulation to the new roof to assure that all areas had 1/4" per foot slope.  In some areas it was only 1/8" per foot or less.
Firestone would not agree to zero ponding, but they did give us a letter that a small amount of ponding would not void the 30 year warranty.
Slippery ice also can be an issue for maintenance workers on white TPOs that tend to melt ice less quickly than black EPDMs.
Frank

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Frank Marshall AIA
Architect
SMB&R Inc
Camp Hill PA
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-27-2012 11:17
From: Richard Shanahan
Subject: Re-Roofing Museum Project

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Practice Management Member Conversations and Project Delivery .
-------------------------------------------

I am presently looking at a re-roofing of a Museum project. Th eown er is asking for a "zero - water infiltration" clause in the docuemnts. Is anyone aware of a definition of "zero - water inflitration" for drawing and specs. In addition address inforcement during construction. 

The project also will require an experienced roofing contractor. Beyond the requiring certified roofing  installers by the manufacturer, 5 years or more experience with product and similar type complicated roofs, and proper bonding and insurance, what additonal requirements may be added to help enssure a qualified roofing contractor. 

Any responce or experience with the above questions woudl be grealy appreiciated.

Thank you in advance for your attention.  
-------------------------------------------
Richard Shanahan AIA
Richard M. Shanahan Architects
Bozeman MT
richard@shanahanarchitects.com
-------------------------------------------

Specify quality assurance field testing and inspections of all roof areas and drains by a third party QA agency with the owner hiring the third party QA agency and paying for all inspections and testing, and the contractor paying for all retests required because of failure.

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[George] [Blackburn] [AIA]
[General Manager]
[Construction Consulting International]
[Carrollton] [Texas]

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Original Message:
Sent: 08-27-2012 11:17
From: Richard Shanahan
Subject: Re-Roofing Museum Project

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Practice Management Member Conversations and Project Delivery .
-------------------------------------------

I am presently looking at a re-roofing of a Museum project. Th eown er is asking for a "zero - water infiltration" clause in the docuemnts. Is anyone aware of a definition of "zero - water inflitration" for drawing and specs. In addition address inforcement during construction. 

The project also will require an experienced roofing contractor. Beyond the requiring certified roofing  installers by the manufacturer, 5 years or more experience with product and similar type complicated roofs, and proper bonding and insurance, what additonal requirements may be added to help enssure a qualified roofing contractor. 

Any responce or experience with the above questions woudl be grealy appreiciated.

Thank you in advance for your attention.  
-------------------------------------------
Richard Shanahan AIA
Richard M. Shanahan Architects
Bozeman MT
richard@shanahanarchitects.com
-------------------------------------------

I have never heard of a "zero - water inflitration" clause and it certainly sounds like a guarrantee for a lawsuit and much else.  You might want to contact the Roofing Contractors Institute to see if they have anything to support or reject such language, I'm sure that most roofing manufacturer's warrantees will imply that they don't leak but the number of variables includine of duration of no infiltration, installations factors, structural variables of the buildng and roof, severe or record weather events (tornadoes, hail storms, etc.) make the warrantees limited at best, and if the owner is trying to put you on the hook for any of that you might want to involve your professional liabilty insurer to explain to the owner what your coverage limits are and that any additional insurance woudl be a additional cost. If it is flat roof, you shoudl also include a flood test.

-------------------------------------------
J. Gerard Capell FCSI, AIA, CCS
Principal
Capell Design Associates
Milwaukee WI
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 08-27-2012 11:17
From: Richard Shanahan
Subject: Re-Roofing Museum Project

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Practice Management Member Conversations and Project Delivery .
-------------------------------------------

I am presently looking at a re-roofing of a Museum project. Th eown er is asking for a "zero - water infiltration" clause in the docuemnts. Is anyone aware of a definition of "zero - water inflitration" for drawing and specs. In addition address inforcement during construction. 

The project also will require an experienced roofing contractor. Beyond the requiring certified roofing  installers by the manufacturer, 5 years or more experience with product and similar type complicated roofs, and proper bonding and insurance, what additonal requirements may be added to help enssure a qualified roofing contractor. 

Any responce or experience with the above questions woudl be grealy appreiciated.

Thank you in advance for your attention.  
-------------------------------------------
Richard Shanahan AIA
Richard M. Shanahan Architects
Bozeman MT
richard@shanahanarchitects.com
-------------------------------------------

Like Gerald, I have never heard of a "zero-infiltration clause". The variables of roof warrantees are so broad that it would be almost impossible to measure. Mty suggestions are the same as his. Contact the Roofing Institute, A Good Lawyer & your Carrier before including this in your documents!

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Burton L. Roslyn, FAIA
President
Roslyn Consultants, LLC
Roslyn Heights, New York
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Original Message:
Sent: 09-10-2012 20:17
From: J. Gerard Capell, FCSI, CCS
Subject: Re-Roofing Museum Project

I have never heard of a "zero - water inflitration" clause and it certainly sounds like a guarrantee for a lawsuit and much else.  You might want to contact the Roofing Contractors Institute to see if they have anything to support or reject such language, I'm sure that most roofing manufacturer's warrantees will imply that they don't leak but the number of variables includine of duration of no infiltration, installations factors, structural variables of the buildng and roof, severe or record weather events (tornadoes, hail storms, etc.) make the warrantees limited at best, and if the owner is trying to put you on the hook for any of that you might want to involve your professional liabilty insurer to explain to the owner what your coverage limits are and that any additional insurance woudl be a additional cost. If it is flat roof, you shoudl also include a flood test.

-------------------------------------------
J. Gerard Capell FCSI, AIA, CCS
Principal
Capell Design Associates
Milwaukee WI
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 08-27-2012 11:17
From: Richard Shanahan
Subject: Re-Roofing Museum Project

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Practice Management Member Conversations and Project Delivery .
-------------------------------------------

I am presently looking at a re-roofing of a Museum project. Th eown er is asking for a "zero - water infiltration" clause in the docuemnts. Is anyone aware of a definition of "zero - water inflitration" for drawing and specs. In addition address inforcement during construction. 

The project also will require an experienced roofing contractor. Beyond the requiring certified roofing  installers by the manufacturer, 5 years or more experience with product and similar type complicated roofs, and proper bonding and insurance, what additonal requirements may be added to help enssure a qualified roofing contractor. 

Any responce or experience with the above questions woudl be grealy appreiciated.

Thank you in advance for your attention.  
-------------------------------------------
Richard Shanahan AIA
Richard M. Shanahan Architects
Bozeman MT
richard@shanahanarchitects.com
-------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------
John Nyfeler FAIA, LEED AP
John Nyfeler, FAIA
Austin TX
-------------------------------------------
My favored roofing consultant, Jim Whitten in Austin says he has served on one project that required a zero infiltration clause.  He says The ERCOT Taylor Operations Center is a super sensitive control center for the electric power grid for a large area.  The requirement was to install on an insulated roof assembly, then on Electric Field Vector Mapping (EFVM) and Vector Mapping Grid (VMG) enabling the waterproofing integrity of the system to be tested as a quality assurance method shortly after installation on in the event of a future leak without the traditional lengthy and costly investigation; then another roof membrane was installed over that assembly.

Jim is at Jim Whitten Roofing Consultants, LLC, 512.250.0999





Original Message:
Sent: 09-11-2012 07:33
From: Burton Roslyn
Subject: Re-Roofing Museum Project

Like Gerald, I have never heard of a "zero-infiltration clause". The variables of roof warrantees are so broad that it would be almost impossible to measure. Mty suggestions are the same as his. Contact the Roofing Institute, A Good Lawyer & your Carrier before including this in your documents!

-------------------------------------------
Burton L. Roslyn, FAIA
President
Roslyn Consultants, LLC
Roslyn Heights, New York
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 09-10-2012 20:17
From: J. Gerard Capell, FCSI, CCS
Subject: Re-Roofing Museum Project

I have never heard of a "zero - water inflitration" clause and it certainly sounds like a guarrantee for a lawsuit and much else.  You might want to contact the Roofing Contractors Institute to see if they have anything to support or reject such language, I'm sure that most roofing manufacturer's warrantees will imply that they don't leak but the number of variables includine of duration of no infiltration, installations factors, structural variables of the buildng and roof, severe or record weather events (tornadoes, hail storms, etc.) make the warrantees limited at best, and if the owner is trying to put you on the hook for any of that you might want to involve your professional liabilty insurer to explain to the owner what your coverage limits are and that any additional insurance woudl be a additional cost. If it is flat roof, you shoudl also include a flood test.

-------------------------------------------
J. Gerard Capell FCSI, AIA, CCS
Principal
Capell Design Associates
Milwaukee WI
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 08-27-2012 11:17
From: Richard Shanahan
Subject: Re-Roofing Museum Project

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Practice Management Member Conversations and Project Delivery .
-------------------------------------------

I am presently looking at a re-roofing of a Museum project. Th eown er is asking for a "zero - water infiltration" clause in the docuemnts. Is anyone aware of a definition of "zero - water inflitration" for drawing and specs. In addition address inforcement during construction. 

The project also will require an experienced roofing contractor. Beyond the requiring certified roofing  installers by the manufacturer, 5 years or more experience with product and similar type complicated roofs, and proper bonding and insurance, what additonal requirements may be added to help enssure a qualified roofing contractor. 

Any responce or experience with the above questions woudl be grealy appreiciated.

Thank you in advance for your attention.  
-------------------------------------------
Richard Shanahan AIA
Richard M. Shanahan Architects
Bozeman MT
richard@shanahanarchitects.com
-------------------------------------------

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Kenneth Thompson
Between Employment
Calabash NC
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Burton Roslyn and all

There was a proposed Baptismal Fountain design project I was working on for St. Brenden Catholic Church in Shallotte, NC, where the Building committee was concerned about water leakage. In my reseach for product that would address this situation I came across a product manufactured by Neptune Coatings Corporation called wetsuit. For further information and to contact them their web site is as follows: http://neptunecoatingscorp.com/

Original Message:
Sent: 09-12-2012 06:37
From: John Nyfeler
Subject: Re-Roofing Museum Project



-------------------------------------------
John Nyfeler FAIA, LEED AP
John Nyfeler, FAIA
Austin TX
-------------------------------------------
My favored roofing consultant, Jim Whitten in Austin says he has served on one project that required a zero infiltration clause.  He says The ERCOT Taylor Operations Center is a super sensitive control center for the electric power grid for a large area.  The requirement was to install on an insulated roof assembly, then on Electric Field Vector Mapping (EFVM) and Vector Mapping Grid (VMG) enabling the waterproofing integrity of the system to be tested as a quality assurance method shortly after installation on in the event of a future leak without the traditional lengthy and costly investigation; then another roof membrane was installed over that assembly.

Jim is at Jim Whitten Roofing Consultants, LLC, 512.250.0999





Original Message:
Sent: 09-11-2012 07:33
From: Burton Roslyn
Subject: Re-Roofing Museum Project

Like Gerald, I have never heard of a "zero-infiltration clause". The variables of roof warrantees are so broad that it would be almost impossible to measure. Mty suggestions are the same as his. Contact the Roofing Institute, A Good Lawyer & your Carrier before including this in your documents!

-------------------------------------------
Burton L. Roslyn, FAIA
President
Roslyn Consultants, LLC
Roslyn Heights, New York
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 09-10-2012 20:17
From: J. Gerard Capell, FCSI, CCS
Subject: Re-Roofing Museum Project

I have never heard of a "zero - water inflitration" clause and it certainly sounds like a guarrantee for a lawsuit and much else.  You might want to contact the Roofing Contractors Institute to see if they have anything to support or reject such language, I'm sure that most roofing manufacturer's warrantees will imply that they don't leak but the number of variables includine of duration of no infiltration, installations factors, structural variables of the buildng and roof, severe or record weather events (tornadoes, hail storms, etc.) make the warrantees limited at best, and if the owner is trying to put you on the hook for any of that you might want to involve your professional liabilty insurer to explain to the owner what your coverage limits are and that any additional insurance woudl be a additional cost. If it is flat roof, you shoudl also include a flood test.

-------------------------------------------
J. Gerard Capell FCSI, AIA, CCS
Principal
Capell Design Associates
Milwaukee WI
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 08-27-2012 11:17
From: Richard Shanahan
Subject: Re-Roofing Museum Project

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Practice Management Member Conversations and Project Delivery .
-------------------------------------------

I am presently looking at a re-roofing of a Museum project. Th eown er is asking for a "zero - water infiltration" clause in the docuemnts. Is anyone aware of a definition of "zero - water inflitration" for drawing and specs. In addition address inforcement during construction. 

The project also will require an experienced roofing contractor. Beyond the requiring certified roofing  installers by the manufacturer, 5 years or more experience with product and similar type complicated roofs, and proper bonding and insurance, what additonal requirements may be added to help enssure a qualified roofing contractor. 

Any responce or experience with the above questions woudl be grealy appreiciated.

Thank you in advance for your attention.  
-------------------------------------------
Richard Shanahan AIA
Richard M. Shanahan Architects
Bozeman MT
richard@shanahanarchitects.com
-------------------------------------------

Richard, you don't mention what penalty your owner wants with the zero-infiltration clause, nor the duration of this warranty. Once he has defined these two elements of the clause, you will at least know what his expectations are, if he hasn't already defined them. 

With the information regarding duration and penalty,  you might contact one or two of your competent roofing contractor friends and ask them how they would deal with a project that contained such a requirement. I would expect them to tell you that they would not bid the project, or that they would bid it with an enormous premium to protect themselves. And they might give unexpected input. You should also ask them to discuss this with one or more manufacturers to get their feedback on this. Finally, I would share what I learned with my owner - along with any other potential costs (i.e. the special project E/O policy that might be necessary).

Be prepared to recommend alternatives to your owner to facilitate his wishes as well as practicable. Having an independent roofing consultant inspect the project extensively and especially at key times during roofing work would provide one element of additional insurance - and this consultant should be on board during the design phase. Input from your roofer friends and roofing consultant should provide additional ideas.

Good luck.
-------------------------------------------
Steven Cox AIA
President
Cox Architecture
Mccomb MS
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 09-11-2012 07:33
From: Burton Roslyn
Subject: Re-Roofing Museum Project

Like Gerald, I have never heard of a "zero-infiltration clause". The variables of roof warrantees are so broad that it would be almost impossible to measure. Mty suggestions are the same as his. Contact the Roofing Institute, A Good Lawyer & your Carrier before including this in your documents!

-------------------------------------------
Burton L. Roslyn, FAIA
President
Roslyn Consultants, LLC
Roslyn Heights, New York
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 09-10-2012 20:17
From: J. Gerard Capell, FCSI, CCS
Subject: Re-Roofing Museum Project

I have never heard of a "zero - water inflitration" clause and it certainly sounds like a guarrantee for a lawsuit and much else.  You might want to contact the Roofing Contractors Institute to see if they have anything to support or reject such language, I'm sure that most roofing manufacturer's warrantees will imply that they don't leak but the number of variables includine of duration of no infiltration, installations factors, structural variables of the buildng and roof, severe or record weather events (tornadoes, hail storms, etc.) make the warrantees limited at best, and if the owner is trying to put you on the hook for any of that you might want to involve your professional liabilty insurer to explain to the owner what your coverage limits are and that any additional insurance woudl be a additional cost. If it is flat roof, you shoudl also include a flood test.

-------------------------------------------
J. Gerard Capell FCSI, AIA, CCS
Principal
Capell Design Associates
Milwaukee WI
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 08-27-2012 11:17
From: Richard Shanahan
Subject: Re-Roofing Museum Project

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Practice Management Member Conversations and Project Delivery .
-------------------------------------------

I am presently looking at a re-roofing of a Museum project. Th eown er is asking for a "zero - water infiltration" clause in the docuemnts. Is anyone aware of a definition of "zero - water inflitration" for drawing and specs. In addition address inforcement during construction. 

The project also will require an experienced roofing contractor. Beyond the requiring certified roofing  installers by the manufacturer, 5 years or more experience with product and similar type complicated roofs, and proper bonding and insurance, what additonal requirements may be added to help enssure a qualified roofing contractor. 

Any responce or experience with the above questions woudl be grealy appreiciated.

Thank you in advance for your attention.  
-------------------------------------------
Richard Shanahan AIA
Richard M. Shanahan Architects
Bozeman MT
richard@shanahanarchitects.com
-------------------------------------------

I agree with what J. Gerard Capell said however; would like to add that an architect is only required to provide services up to the standard of other architects in his community.  Offering a higher standard is a "guarantee" that is not covered by your professional liability insurance.  You cannot offer perfection any more than a doctor can guarantee that everyone coming into his office will get well or a lawyer can guarantee that he will win your case.  I would check the wording of the agreement very carefully since it could nullify your insurance coverage which is probably another requirement for the contract.  It is a "catch 22", when you are required to have professional liability insurance and at the same time asked to agree to terms that are not insurable.

My recommendation is to revise the wording of  the agreement to something that is insurable and then request a separate "project policy" from your insurance company.  The client should pay for this policy (usually lump sum) since he is requesting it. 

Joel Ives AIA
The Ives Architecture Studio LLC
Fair Lawn NJ
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 09-10-2012 20:17
From: J. Gerard Capell, FCSI, CCS
Subject: Re-Roofing Museum Project

I have never heard of a "zero - water inflitration" clause and it certainly sounds like a guarrantee for a lawsuit and much else.  You might want to contact the Roofing Contractors Institute to see if they have anything to support or reject such language, I'm sure that most roofing manufacturer's warrantees will imply that they don't leak but the number of variables includine of duration of no infiltration, installations factors, structural variables of the buildng and roof, severe or record weather events (tornadoes, hail storms, etc.) make the warrantees limited at best, and if the owner is trying to put you on the hook for any of that you might want to involve your professional liabilty insurer to explain to the owner what your coverage limits are and that any additional insurance woudl be a additional cost. If it is flat roof, you shoudl also include a flood test.

-------------------------------------------
J. Gerard Capell FCSI, AIA, CCS
Principal
Capell Design Associates
Milwaukee WI
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 08-27-2012 11:17
From: Richard Shanahan
Subject: Re-Roofing Museum Project

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Practice Management Member Conversations and Project Delivery .
-------------------------------------------

I am presently looking at a re-roofing of a Museum project. Th eown er is asking for a "zero - water infiltration" clause in the docuemnts. Is anyone aware of a definition of "zero - water inflitration" for drawing and specs. In addition address inforcement during construction. 

The project also will require an experienced roofing contractor. Beyond the requiring certified roofing  installers by the manufacturer, 5 years or more experience with product and similar type complicated roofs, and proper bonding and insurance, what additonal requirements may be added to help enssure a qualified roofing contractor. 

Any responce or experience with the above questions woudl be grealy appreiciated.

Thank you in advance for your attention.  
-------------------------------------------
Richard Shanahan AIA
Richard M. Shanahan Architects
Bozeman MT
richard@shanahanarchitects.com
-------------------------------------------