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Original Message:
Sent: 08-28-2012 11:16
From: Thomas Streicher
Subject: Educate potential clients how to work with an architect.
Tim, if you put it that way you can see why I need to seek help here in the forums. Perhaps if I had more experience with proposals I could have submitted something un-specific enough to do something but as I said, there were too many un-known here and I needed my friend and his partners (some of whom are lawyers) to provide some answerers. Most of the questions that prevented me from doing a proposal didn't even involve the actual design of a building. Most of the concerns had to do with what I have been referring to as "stake holder "concerns.
Here are just a few specifics: The site is on a small municipality owned air-port facility. The clients have to make a proposal to the city for the project. The city has to approve that proposal adding multiple layers of approvals to the project. They will not spring for a survey until they get that approval. I felt a survey is required before doing a proposal due to the active site with existing infrastructure, multiple overlapping easements, increased complicated zoning and clearance requirements, extra site security requirements etc. I tried to see if the management of the facility had an existing survey or site plan to use as a starting point and I was told the "applicant" had to ask for that directly. They wouldn't even tell me if a plan exists or not, the question had to go thru the "applicant". The same story goes for my questions on required approvals. The city won't tell me and suggested I asked the applicant, which I did. They did say if I was listed on the applicant project team they would talk to me.
But more importantly, as it turns out, a survey isn't the only thing they didn't want to pay for before getting approval by the city. Design service is another. I got this information months after I started trying to get this job. They didn't want to pay if the project didn't get approved (but they need a design to propose?). I suggested we could work out a deferred payment schedule pending approval of the project, if it doesn't get approved, all I get are reimbursables. This would have to be in the proposal. But to take that risk, I needed to know more about the business plan, the partners, the stake holders and a little about the building requirements too. I also needed some sort of assurance they would pursue the project with all means and not just give it a try to see what happens.
But they started without design professional services and started on their own. Now I fear they are too far into it, so I figured I would look for info to share with a client on how to work with an architect hoping it stressed getting design professionals involved sooner than later to use in the future. Also hoping for something to educate myself as well.
Initially I didn't want to go into all the specific details in this forum as I didn't think it was necessary for the discussion, I didn't want to reveal too much about the client and I also didn't want fellow architects wondering about this knuckle-head that wants to get involved with a project that is so discombobulated before it starts. But I guess it may be relevant to the discussion after all so here it is.
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Thomas Streicher AIA
Thomas Streicher, Architect
Monroe NY
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-28-2012 09:15
From: Timothy Wall
Subject: Educate potential clients how to work with an architect.
Did I miss something in the story? An old friend comes to you with an architectural need and you told him he had to prepare an RFP? And then get other quotes? Why would you not just say "give me a few of days and I'll have a proposal for you. There are some decisions that will effect the project so we'll make the proposal for schematic design to start and we will expand it later when we work out the parameters. We'll need to hire a surveyor...I can help with that. And then we'll start working." Sure it's nice to have clients who know how architects work and can spell out their need in nice written form. But good grief you had a client with a need and open to your guidance and you gave it away.
Tim
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Timothy Wall AIA
Chief Architect
Ken Herceg & Associates, Inc.
South Bend IN
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-27-2012 16:19
From: Thomas Streicher
Subject: Educate potential clients how to work with an architect.
Jerry, perhaps you have oversimplified the situation a bit but your point is well taken and perhaps re-phrases a portion of the question a little more clearly.
To expand upon this specific situation a bit further; I went to the project site over the course of a weekend and discussed the project with the potential client over the course of a two days. During that time various questions arose over what the client wanted to achieve and what the needs where, both form a physical building perspective and also from a stake holder view. The client could not answer some of the questions and needed to look into it. With other questions it seemed they needed to develop the business further to answer including adding an entire building end user group to the program. Other open issues where things like a survey of the site. We left it at this: when they had some of the questions answered they would write them down and forward to me along with a survey of the site so I could give them a proposal. I could not figure out how to present a proposal without some of those questions answered and I conveyed that to the client. As we all know, the owner has responsibilities during a project as well as the architect.
But it appears they have been developing the project parameters and started design related activities without an architect (see prior post). So perhaps the tile of my original post was not the best, but this project would have been belter served with an architect, myself or not, involved sooner than later and I am afraid it is too late for this one, they got the ball rolling in the wrong direction. I am completely sure the needs of the client have not been meet by their own efforts and the efforts of the "free design services" they received from potential contractors. If I or anther architect do eventually get involved with this project it is already off to a bad start and I guess I am trying to find a way to prevent the same for the next one.
I like your statement "Our potential client's needs are not derived with the purpose of providing architects commissions. They are the result of an Owner's objectives or needs. The architect is either an instrument or an obstacle. We have the potential to shape that opinion for each owner or client." It looks like I don't know how to shape that opinion, at least in this case and I think that could be the question I am trying to answer. How to shape that opinion?
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Thomas Streicher AIA
Thomas Streicher, Architect
Monroe NY
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-27-2012 10:05
From: Jerry Childers
Subject: Educate potential clients how to work with an architect.
If I understand the specific situation correctly, the owner came to the architect as a first step. At the risk of oversimplifying the situation, it appears that the architect effectively told the Owner to solve his own problem before the architect could work with him.
I have often been amused with our profession's academic approach to clients and prospective clients. Too often we expect clients or prospects to conform to an artificial formality that defined by our standard process, terminology and expectations.
Is this approach the result of arrogance or the failure to understand the real needs of the client?
Our potential client's needs are not derived with the purpose of providing architects commissions. They are the result of an Owner's objectives or needs. The architect is either an instrument or an obstacle. We have the potential to shape that opinion for each owner or client.
Is not a great part of our potential value to owners lost when we limit our initial approach to customers to a strict interpretation of the AIA contract forms. These documents and the implied limits are extremely negative from the perspective of an inexperienced owner.
The future is in our hands. Owners have other choices. The architect has lost its way when we forget that the needs of owners do not always fit in our self-defined box. Yes, we would be well served if the public had a better understanding of the potential value that an architect can add to a project; but of equal or greater importance, is the fact that the architect would be well served to educate members of its own the profession the importance of addressing the actual needs of the Owner. Their needs go beyond design after a program is defined. One of our greatest strengths and resulting value is to work in a world of fuzzy information and bring understanding and direction to the situation and assist in its implementation.
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Jerry Childers AIA
Principal
Jerry W. Childers, Architect
Malvern PA
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-24-2012 09:16
From: Gerald Morosco
Subject: Educate potential clients how to work with an architect.
Thomas,
You might check out a copy of a book I authored in 2006 entitled "How to Work with an Architect" published by Gibbs Smith. Though written with a focus towards single family residential clients, the content builds upon best practices exampled through numerous AIA Chapter resources which have been published over the years and can be useful in the context of non-residential work. I know that a number of our colleagues give them out to their clients as something of a primer for the architect:client relationship.
It is still in print and you can pick up gently used copies on the internet for a couple bucks.
Here's the URL on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/142360007X/102-3631612-5126567?v=glance&n=283155&s=books&v=glance
Please do let me know if you find this book to be helpful and also any comments you might have to improve the content as we are working on a second edition.
Best professional regards,
Jerry Morosco
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Gerald Morosco AIA
President
Gerald Lee Morosco Architects, PC
Pittsburgh PA
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-22-2012 16:10
From: Thomas Streicher
Subject: Educate potential clients how to work with an architect.
This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Repositioning the Architect and Practice Management Member Conversations .
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As we have seen in numerous posts, most people don't know what an architect does. Recently an old friend of mine got into a business venture where they need to build an office and utilitarian building. I asked him for a written description of what they needed .... a request for proposal and took a weekend visit to talk about the project and what a RFP was and what should be in it for their use. During the visit we determined that a metal building may suite his need (I have some experience with "butler" type buildings). I said I would give them a proposal letter after I received the info and a survey and suggested they get other proposals as well (but I didn't dwell on that issue!). Over the course of a few weeks I asked about the progress of the RFP. Several months later, I actually got a response: a plan he "drafted" and sketch from a pre-fab building manufacturer that formed the proposal they made to the entity that owns the site. The plan has no vertical or horizontal circulation and forget about egress. Design wise the sketch is terrible and poorly drawn. They also bought a used agricultural greenhouse frame to use for part of the project. They are now in love with this scheme they concocted ...........you get the drift; you probably have all been there. Now for the question: Is there any prepared document or brochure available to give to clients on how to work with an architect? I explained it to him but it went in one ear and out the other, assuming he was even listening in the first place (my friend has attention issues). The most important thing in this case I needed to convince them of was to get the architect involved from the start, but they just don't get it. I have all but written off this project but I don't want it to happen again. Help!
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Thomas Streicher AIA
Thomas Streicher, Architect
Monroe NY
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