Practice Management Member Conversations

Back to discussion forums
Expand all | Collapse all

What is a Masters in Architecture worth in the State of CA when you can become a license Architect without it?

  • 1.  What is a Masters in Architecture worth in the State of CA when you can become a license Architect without it?

    Posted 04-06-2011 04:20 PM

    I have a huge dilemma to discuss - Whether or not to get my Masters in Architecture (first professional) or continue to work at my new job in these hard times. I have been accepted into several programs but they require me to put in more money through student loans as well as change my location. I have thought about the pros and cons and they are about even.

    My question - is a Masters in Architecture (First Professional) worth the investment in the building industry? I live in California and according to their rules, I can get license without my professional degree. I just need 4 years of work experience (which I do have) before I can begin taking the AREs.

    How many design/building professionals out there have their masters in architecture and does it make a huge difference in their lives (income, titles, status, etc)? Never mind getting license as an Architect. What are your thoughts and opinions?

    -------------------------------------------
    Karla Lockhart Assoc. AIA
    Designer

    -------------------------------------------



  • 2.  RE:What is a Masters in Architecture worth in the State of CA when you can become a license Architect without it?

    Posted 04-06-2011 08:36 PM
    Hi Karla,

    That is a really good question.  My first response is to encourage you to get your Masters in Architecture.  If, years ago, it was considered perfunctory for a person to have a Bachelor's degree to gain employment in his/her field, today I think the minimum requirement is a Master's degree.  There's a lot of competition out there and this is one of the best ways to further distinguish yourself.

    However, every person's situation is different.  I don't have a Master's degree (wish I did, though, and may still get one...if schedule permits). 

    One prior leader of the Texas Society of Architects noted that she is at the top of her firm and she only has a BArch degree.  (The caveat, though, is that she is married to one of the firm's principals).  Of course, she is a talented, competent architect in her own right, so her marital status is NOT the reason she is where she is- just that it has been noted, by one of the leading deans of architecture schools, that for women to get ahead in architecture, the best way is to "marry an architect."  (The Dean was smiling when she said this- so I think her 'advice' is to be taken with a grain of salt...).  :D

    If you are in a place to complete your A.R.E., then that might be the better option- that is, if you are planning to run your own Design-Build firm.  Otherwise, I think getting an MArch is a wise choice to make.  Once you are licensed, it can sometimes feel like a Merry-Go-Round of taking CEU's to maintain licensure to where that can become one's full-time job of sorts, especially if you have a family to care for, too.

    The thing is, where does it end?  After obtaining a Master's degree, you may feel the need to earn an MBA or PhD in Evidenced-based design, etc. 

    Before making your decision, I would recommend you read "The Owner's Dilemma," written by Barbara White Bryson with Canan Yetmen, which gives a very clear picture of the current A/E/C industry.  It may help guide you toward the best path for you.  Also, "Down Detour Road," by Eric Cesal is another great book about today's emerging architects' quest for work, meaning, etc.

    Good luck in your endeavors and congratulations on all of your accomplishments, which per your profile are many.

    Kind regards,
    Tara

    -------------------------------------------
    Tara Imani AIA
    Principal
    Tara Imani Designs, LLC
    Houston TX
    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message


  • 3.  RE:What is a Masters in Architecture worth in the State of CA when you can become a license Architect without it?

    Posted 04-07-2011 06:18 AM
    Another issue to keep in mind while making your decision is that other jurisdictions may not allow you to transfer you license through Reciprocity or other means if you don't meet the requirements in there state for education, this could limit your options in the furture.  Again, this may not be a big deal if you don't plan on owning your own firm or doing projects outside your state. 

    -------------------------------------------
    Patrick Barry, AIA, LEED AP BD+C
    Project Architect
    Fusco, Shaffer & Pappas, Inc. Architects and Planners
    Farmington Hills MI
    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message


  • 4.  RE:What is a Masters in Architecture worth in the State of CA when you can become a license Architect without it?

    Posted 04-08-2011 08:31 AM
    If I am understanding your situation, you do not have a 5 year accredited Bachelor of Architecture.  If that is the case, I would recommend obtaining the accredited Masters of Architecture.  This will allow you to get coveted reciprocity that others have mentioned.  The reciprocity for me is important since I practice in several states.  If you are hoping a Masters of Architecture will give you more business insight, then I would pursue a MBA.  I have the 5 year accredited Bachelor of Architecture from 1992 from a NAAB accredited school and program and obtained my license with that degree.  If I ever do go back to school, I would be going for an MBA or a law degree.

    -------------------------------------------
    Brian McNew AIA
    McNew Architecture, APAC
    Shreveport LA
    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message


  • 5.  RE:What is a Masters in Architecture worth in the State of CA when you can become a license Architect without it?

    Posted 04-07-2011 07:51 AM
    I have practiced in Maryland/Virginia (basically the east coast) for over 30 years, running my own firm most of that time.  We look to see if recent grads have a professional degree and are able to be licensed. We don't really care if one has a Masters or a BArch.  Our concern has more to do with the quality and character of the person, if and how they can contribute, and if we can expect any "investment" we may make to reep rewards (in other words, will they stay or go).  We are not real interested in hiring someone who will be around for a couple years and then leave for a few years to go back to school, we do it but we avoid it.  We also, for the most part, don't really care if you are or can be licensed.  We encourage it but we have plenty of licensed professionals so it's not really a concern to us.  

    My advice is that you need to decide what you want to do and what path you want, or are able, to take.  If you want to have the ability to have your own firm you need to be able to get licensed.  If you can get licensed in CA without a professional degree you then need to understand how reciprocity works in neighboring states and if you think that will be an issue.  You should only go to graduate school for two reasons, one is if you need the professional degree to get your license; the second reason is if there is a specific area of study that you want to advance. 

    I would be interested in what others have to say but my feeling is once you are active in the industry, other than the issue of obtaining a licence, having a Masters degree or not doesn't really matter but the quality or your work, your skills, and your talent do.  Again, other than the ability to get, or ease of getting, a licence, to seek a Masters in an effort to enhance you professional opportunities will be a difficult sell from a financial point of view.  Your time, and resources, may be better spent by finding a position at a firm that does what you want to do where you can learn on the job, even if you take a pay cut to do it.
    -------------------------------------------
    Francis Watkins AIA
    Bignell Watkins & Hasser Architects, P.A.
    Annapolis MD
    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message


  • 6.  Re: What is a Masters in Architecture worth?

    Posted 04-07-2011 10:49 AM
    I'd like to respond to the question of what a M-Arch is worth.  Originally I didn't think that the Masters degree would help me professionally.  I worked in architecture firms for several years after graduating with a Bachelors of Arch Studies degree, worked the required number of years as an intern, took the ARE and became licensed.
    Working my way up in my career to my present leadership position as VP of architecture for a civil engineering firm was the easy part with a Bachelors degree. My professional experience carried me.  

    When it became necessary in my career to apply for license reciprocity is when I found out that having a Masters (professional) degree was a HUGE advantage.  Having only a Bachelor's degree, I had to apply for the NCARB Broadly Experienced Architect's program and document virtually EVERY learning experience I had over my entire career.  I had to make two applications because my first dossier was ejected. Documenting convention attendance, Lunch & Learn's, professional society sponsored learning, client and project experiences were all required for my professional dossier for NCARB's BEA program.  Had I received my M-Arch degree, the three-year process I endured would have taken only months to complete. If you only want to practice in California, I would suggest that the Masters is no big deal, but who knows where your career will lead. Get the Masters now and avoid the headaches later.

    -------------------------------------------
    Jeffery Schulz AIA, NCARB
    Sr. Vice Pres. - Architecture
    Martenson & Eisele Inc.
    Menasha WI
    -------------------------------------------


  • 7.  RE:Re: What is a Masters in Architecture worth?

    Posted 04-08-2011 12:27 PM
    You want to keep your options open.  BArch (if you can find an accredited program) or MArch, recognized by NAAB/NCARB at the time you get your degree -- either, as long as it is a "Professional Degree."  A degree in "architectural studies" may get you a job in a firm, but, like Jeffery mentioned, won't help you out with NCARB.

    IF (and there was a question raised about that in another message) you can get California licensure without a professional degree, do go ahead and work on that.  But, figure out a way to get your first professional degree - part time work/part time school -- or, go for that MBA, and end up in charge.

    -------------------------------------------
    Joel Niemi AIA
    Dykeman, Inc.
    Everett WA
    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message


  • 8.  RE:What is a Masters in Architecture worth in the State of CA when you can become a license Architect without it?

    Posted 04-07-2011 11:52 AM

    Karla,

    While you might be able to get licensed in CA without a first professional degree, not having a first professional masters degree will close a lot of doors to your advancement and you'll loose a chance to learn those things that the real world is not equipped to teach your or doesn't have time to deal with.  It's  my impression that most other state require a professional degree, including a 5 year bachelor's degree.

    Adding to your skill and knowledge is important to moving into higher levels of leadership (and pay).  Investing in yourself is a long range strategy.  It's a really hard decision, I know. Good luck.
    -------------------------------------------
    Catherine Alberte AIA
    Sr. Associate/sr. Medical Planner
    NBBJ
    New York NY
    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message


  • 9.  RE:What is a Masters in Architecture worth in the State of CA when you can become a license Architect without it?

    Posted 04-07-2011 01:38 PM
    Karla,

    In our state, you have two education choices for licensure.  Either a 4 year degree plus the 1 year Bachelor of Architecture (often called the professional degree) or a 4 year degree plus a Masters in Architecture.  A 4 year degree plus X number of years of work experience is not an option. 

    When I was in school about 20 years ago, and it appears to be the same today, the following was the general guidance I was given.  If you want to be a practicing architect the 4+1 is the best choice.  Unless you just specifically want a Masters.  If you want to teach architecture, then you will need a Masters.

    The idea was or is that the workplace will be less concerned with your education and more concerned with your abilities.  Of course, there are exceptions.  If you plan to enter specialized niche practice, then a Master's could be an important part of your credentials.

    I hope that helps.

    -------------------------------------------
    Robert Smith AIA
    Architect
    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message


  • 10.  Masters Degree

    Posted 04-07-2011 05:10 PM
    If you want to someday teach, then a Masters will be helpful, perhaps even mandatory.
    If you want to practice, get your license as soon as possible and get as much real-world experience, particularly in how buildings are built, not just designed.
    Masters programs are great for architectural theory and research, which is usually required for teaching, but not so great for practical problem-solving like we do in the real world.
    I have a BArch (5-year) and have always wanted to get a Masters just for the hell of it but if you want to go further in the business, I'd strongly suggest you get an MBA, not a Masters in Architecture.
    Architects are notoriously bad businesspeople and it would help tremendously, whether you go on your own or work for someone's firm.
    It took me 10-15 years to learn how to conduct a successful business on my own, whereas an MBA would have only taken 2 years.
    Good luck!

    -------------------------------------------
    Larry Paul AIA
    L. A. Paul & Associates
    San Francisco, CA
    -------------------------------------------


  • 11.  RE:What is a Masters in Architecture worth in the State of CA when you can become a license Architect without it?

    Posted 04-07-2011 08:51 PM
    Karla:

    Are you sure you understand the rules correctly for California?  They do want a professional degree, but the first professional degree is a five year Bachelor of Architecture, not a Masters.

    Look over the requirements at:  http://www.cab.ca.gov/candidates/education.shtml 

    There you can find what CA is looking for in education, experience, and examination requirements.  This might make a difference in what you decide to do.

    -------------------------------------------
    Klaus Steinke AIA
    Las Vegas NV
    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message