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The AIA Technology in Architectural Practice Knowledge Community (TAP) serves as a resource for AIA members, the profession, and the public in the deployment of computer technology in the practice of architecture. TAP leaders monitor the development of computer technology and its impact on architecture practice and the entire building life cycle, including design, construction, facility management, and retirement or reuse.

    

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CAD PROGRAMS

  • 1.  CAD PROGRAMS

    Posted 04-12-2016 12:33 PM

    All,

    Our small (5 person) firm is exploring new software possibilities. We own Autocad Architectural 2004 and 2011 plus two Autocad Lt's 2010 and have successfully used Autocad on residential, commercial and institutional projects for almost 30 years.  Our problem is more clients want 3D but only have one person fluent in Sketch-up.   Revit seems too large, expensive and difficult  for custom traditional homes.  I have looked at Chief Architect for custom homes (Shingle Style, Craftsman, Traditional, etc.) but would like to hear from users on it's ease of use or any other suggestions. 

    We seek to make Design to CD process easier and quicker.  There was a discussion a few years ago on this topic, but should  be updated as we feel this is the most important issue facing all Architects.

     

    Ben McKay, AIA

    Greenville, SC


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  • 2.  RE: CAD PROGRAMS

    Posted 04-13-2016 05:30 PM

    I'm a two-person firm.

    We use Revit. Do not be intimidated.

    ------------------------------
    Mike Sealander AIA
    Sealander Studio
    Brooklin ME



  • 3.  RE: CAD PROGRAMS

    Posted 04-15-2016 11:41 AM

    I am a one man office and most of my architectural work is in single family residential.  I have transitioned to Revit and have found it to be so much more efficient than Autocad Architecture in producing both design drawings and CD's. After being in denial for a couple of years and stubbornly refusing to move to Revit, I finally spent about a year teaching myself in my spare time using various printed manuals.  "Lynda.com" is great for getting up to speed !  Yes, Revit is a steep learning curve, but so was the transition from manual drafting to CAD.  With Revit I can produce quick 3d models to show my clients during schematic design. As the design evolves I can then produce quite attractive renderings right in Revit.  Then the model is very easily converted to CD's.  It's so easy to create new section views I have to restrain myself from over-detailing !   I find procedures for producing final drawings in Revit save a lot of time as compared to Autocad Architecture since so many things are automated.

    Meanwhile, I have an architect friend who uses Archicad and she loves it, except she reports that she has great difficulty in finding employees who are familiar with it .

    I agree with the recommendation you "not be intimidated" by Revit !

    ------------------------------
    Robert Larsen AIA
    Principal
    Robert R. Larsen, A.I.A.
    Denver CO



  • 4.  RE: CAD PROGRAMS

    Posted 04-16-2016 03:40 PM

    I also use Revit for residential. Tried out Chief Architect for a couple of months-- found the initial visual output very alluring but as got into the project found it did not have the complexity to handle an addition and accessory structure with foundations varying with terrain. With Revit the topography, addition and accessory building can be referenced to one another and material schedules for the 2 buildings kept separate.

    Revit is a more professional software. To get the alluring graphic output of Chief Architect custom materials have to be created, Autodesk should work on that. I use Revit LT subscription for 65.00/month. It comes with Autocad LT which I find is too stripped down so use old Autocad Architecture 2013 to draft up 2D details for import into Revit.  

     

    Kind Regards,

    Frances Hamilton AIA LEED AP BD+C SEED

    Architectural designs for an energy efficient lifestyle
    404-735-8005
    https://www.linkedin.com/in/franceshamilton
    info@HAStudio.com

     

     






  • 5.  RE: CAD PROGRAMS

    Posted 04-13-2016 06:06 PM
    Ben,

    We have implemented Archicad for our small office in the last year. We have 4 residential architects and 4 commercial architects designing on the computer and 5 have successfully made the transition to BIM. Archicad seemed much better suited to residential projects and has some great features right out of the box. It also runs on both Mac and PC which was a plus for us. Our residential clients love the 3D views and the ability to do walk-through tours on their iPad.

    No matter which way you go, I STRONGLY recommend bringing on board someone who has experience with the program that you choose and having them be the advocate in the firm. Training is great but it's a long hard road and it's great to have someone in house to answer questions and guide the rest of the firm. Did I mention that it's a long hard road?

    Jeff Snyder







  • 6.  RE: CAD PROGRAMS

    Posted 04-13-2016 06:10 PM

    I have been using both Chief Architect and ArchiCAD since the '90s, and have (and use) the latest versions of each. Chief Architect has made enormous improvement over the years, and I can heartily recommend it as a very quick and relatively painless program. However, depending on your practice, ArchiCAD might be be better suited if you are doing very finicky, highly detailed construction sets. If you want to be able to have multiple persons working on a single project at the same time, then ArchiCAD (with its Teamwork function) is really your best choice. ArchiCAD is a powerhouse of features. But there is a steeper learning curve, and I would not suggest trying to learn this on your own without instruction.

    Chief is very quick for 3D design, but not quite as facile in the 2D CAD department. But has good training videos, excellent technical support, and an excellent user support forum. But it is not at the same level of production. For example, it does not yet have the ability to link reference annotation to the drawing set (so if you move a detail to another sheet the reference bubble updates automatically). For more detailed projects, I use Chief to rough out a design, then export plans in DWG format to ArchiCAD to finish the detailed design and ConDocs. I wouldn't want to try projects like THIS in Chief Architect. Just depends on the scale and level of complexity of projects in your office, I think.

    ------------------------------
    Richard Morrison
    Architect-Interior Designer
    Redwood City CA



  • 7.  RE: CAD PROGRAMS

    Posted 04-13-2016 08:11 PM

    Hi Ben

    My small office has Autocad 2009 - and I intend to leave that in place indefinitely as the perpetual license is gold (and not available any longer).  Our version of Autocad includes Revit - which we tried to use for residential work and found it very difficult to align with our workflow and budgets.  Basic problem for us: we had to get WAY TOO specific too early in the process.  Last year I adopted Vectorworks - rated as the easiest to learn BIM platform informally by a number of folks I've chatted with who know all the tools out there.  Vectorworks has has a range of tools including early massing (very much like sketchup) and overall it supports a seamless work flow for the way we work.  As it happens, Vectorworks has a special promotion for a few days available to AIA members - 25% off with a free year of service - so it's a good time to make the leap.  

    To be blunt: we LOVE vectorworks - and our clients do as well.  It was a quick transition to go from autocad to 3d BIM - but we also still use Autocad for CD's - we create sections in Vectorworks from the model - then export them as dwg's and then bring them into autocad where we have a large library of symbols, notes, and standards; and where it's easier to do the 'line work'.  We still use sketchup - but not as much.  We recently found out that Vectorworks will 'print' to a full 3d model in PDF form that we can share with our customers; who can open it with free Adobe Reader - and they can rotate, cut through, change lighting, etc on their own.  Our clients really enjoy being 'part of the process' in an active way using this new tool  (we used to share a copy of our sketchup model - but the pdf is even better in that no special software knowledge is needed).  If you need more info on the special vectorworks deal - I believe it is on for only a few more days - I suggest you send an email directly to the national vectorwork director of sales Mark Hewick mark@vectorworks.net.  

    <mark@vectorworks.net>

    ------------------------------
    Michael Malinowski AIA
    AIACC President
    Applied Architecture, Inc.
    Sacramento CA



  • 8.  RE: CAD PROGRAMS

    Posted 04-14-2016 10:30 PM

    Hi,

    I've spent time with all the programs mentioned here and have worked extensively with VectorWorks and ArchiCAD. My conclusion, which I will not claim to be unbiased, is this:

    First, I agree with Mike. Do not be intimidated by BIM. A year from now you will be happy you took the plunge. These programs have so much more to offer than Autocad or SketchUp you will be amazed. But it will take a while to surpass the point you are now. Be patient, your graphics will be fine despite your initial gag reflex. After that comes the good stuff (advanced visualization, data, energy modeling, etc.).

    Secondly, Jeffery's advice about getting an expert on board is spot on. Nothing will ensure (or insure) your investment like having someone in-house. Be prepared for her or him to rack up a lot of unbillable hours. 

    As for the programs themselves VW is perhaps the best engineered CAD software available and probably the best bargain, but (yes there is always a but), if you plan on having multiple designers work simultaneously on projects (which you should, even if you don't now) ArchiCAD is your clear choice. The Graphisoft BIM Server is head and shoulders above the competition especially if you want to avoid or minimize IT consultants and expensive hardware. And since the rest of the program is also very good ArchiCAD gets my endorsement.

    Hope that helps. Best of luck. 

    ------------------------------
    Geoff Briggs Assoc. AIA
    DeForest Architects
    Seattle WA



  • 9.  RE: CAD PROGRAMS

    Posted 04-15-2016 08:09 AM

    Ben,

    As you can see, ask architects which CAD program is the best for a small firm and you will get a multitude of answers and none of them "wrong". I've worked in a number of small firms over the years doing custom, high end residential projects and worked with just about every CAD program there is (including every one of the programs mentioned so far in this thread's responses). I currently use Revit for my practice. As with any CAD program there is a learning curve but once you get over that I have found Revit to be an excellent program where I can very easily create any design I want and immediately build on the early design to take it into CDs. And for me, CDs is where Revit excels since I no longer have to worry about coordinating all the details and sheets and doors and windows etc.... you get the idea. Revit does all the mundane coordinating issues for you. For me, Revit 3d modeling is the second best thing about the program; the best thing is its ability to create great CDs fast and with an accuracy that would have taken me forever in AutoCad.  The efficiency gains with Revit over AutoCad on the production side are tremendous and the ability to show clients (and coordinate with co-workers) the design in 3d is not to be underestimated. And this allows me more time to focus on the architecture (and not the production of permit drawings) since in the end, that is what is most important.

    But this is not to say the other BIM programs mentioned by others in this thread can't produce or do the same thing as Revit as they certainly can. There is no magic CAD program that is better than all the rest of them since given time and effort they can all be made to work for you and your firm. What needs to be taken into account is the total cost of ownership which is not just the yearly cost of the program but training (and this includes the availability of currently trained staff in the marketplace), product support (both by the manufacturer and 3rd party vendors), and the products future development resources. How the total cost of ownership best works with your practice is a choice only you can make. For me, when I was choosing the program to use for my small firm it was Revit, for others it was a different program.

    And I would certainly agree that having someone on board who knows a program is the preferable way to move forward. Having an 'answer man (or woman)' internally is an invaluable resource. It makes the hard road ahead that much easier. But realize that your firm's transition needs to happen slowly, picking one project to start with and seeing it through from beginning to end. Once you have a project under your belt you can see what worked and didn't work for your office and build on it. Before you know it you'll never look back!

    Hope that helps!

    ------------------------------
    [Dean] [Cretsinger] [AIA]
    [DJC Architecture]
    [McLean] [Virginia]



  • 10.  RE: CAD PROGRAMS

    Posted 04-15-2016 02:03 PM

    All:

    Throughout my experience I have used several CAD software packages. I have been using AutoCAD for almost 20 years. I also have been using Revit and ArchiCAD for the past 10 years. I have heard many opinions about which package is good for what kind of project. I have used Revit in a large project such as a multi-story office building and interior project down to the design of a residential backyard fence. Revit has a significant upfront cost but it pays for itself very quickly in drastically reducing the amount of time spent "cleaning up drawings in CAD" or managing x-refs and layers and all those annoying CAD tasks that eat into your profit!. I highly recommend using BIM for the sake of staying profitable at least. ArchiCAD has drastically improved in versions 13 onward with the new Teamwork. I would stay away from using one software for 3D modelling and then one for production that kills your profit margin! I love how I can simultaneously create 3D rendering and output 2D drawings at the same time in Revit. It's all in one file. I don't even use Photoshop or InDesign. Don't look at the price tag, look ahead 5 years and how you will spend your professional time. At the end of the day, all these software packages are a just another pencil. It ultimately comes down to the user and their background and experience. 

    Best,

    ------------------------------
    Daniel Guich, NCARB, LEED AP, CDT



  • 11.  RE: CAD PROGRAMS

    Posted 04-15-2016 04:49 PM

    Revit carries a big price tag, but there is also Revit LT. I use it for small office buildings and such. It takes some learning and set up, but the payback is beyond belief. I resisted Revit for years, and justifiably so, until the package began to mature. The ability to do things just one time will improve your workflow so well that you will wonder how you ever did it before.

    While I use Sketchup for furniture design, I would never attempt to use it for building design. I haven't used Chief Architect, so I can't comment on that.

    In my office I write specs for several projects at a time. Since Revit is such a data-rich tool, I can go into the model and determine the brand name and model number of the item the designer intends to use.

    And just think about coordination within your model. You will always capture every door in the door schedule, every room in the room schedule. When you build the model in traditional plan view you are also building the elevations and sections of the building.

    A trial version can be downloaded for free, and there are literally thousands of free videos on how to use the software. even if you get a trial version, sit in on at least an introduction seminar to get the feel of it. It's like Architectural Desktop, but totally different. One of the greatest keys to using Revit is to get your template set up in a way that aids your workflow, and there are examples of that across the web, as well.

    There are plenty of offices in the Greenville area that would be willing to demonstrate the product for you. Also, Paul Aubin publishes great books through the Autodesk Press that are among the best on the market.




  • 12.  RE: CAD PROGRAMS

    Posted 04-17-2016 04:47 PM

    Be sure and compare licensing of the packages you are considering. I know that Autodesk has recently changed their model and are 100 percent subscription based. So when your subscription is up your software will not function until you renew. Others have subscriptions for multiple years and during your subscription period you receive all new releases. When your subscription ends, you get updates for the last release you have until a new major release is out. You software still functions, you own it and can keep it forever. Your renewal fee to get back on the wheel continues to increase until it is nearly as expensive as a new seat but you and your projects are not held at gunpoint until you cough up the coin.

    I have used multiple packages over the last 30 years but the investment in BIM for small firms can be defeated if their consultants are not on board as well. For years I was exporting from detailed 3D models into the 2D world and ended up having to coordinate with all the flatlanders work anyway. I spent a ton of time sending 3D model views to structural and MEP consultants because "They did not see the profitability in BIM." Well sure, they were feeding off my profit to make things work!

    I have used SketchUp, Bentley, ArchiCad and Revit and keep my own licenses of ArchiCad and SketchUp. I use SketchUp to model components and then place them in ArchiCad. Walls and library parts are superior in ArchiCad to walls and families in Revit. Revit says their families are parametric, but not really. You end up with files that are huge because you have so many things duplicated to change just one characteristic. ArchiCad files are usually smaller and operations do not take as long. But Revit has more add-on packages available to end-users. But they also have more seats in the US. When you look globally, ArchiCad is used in more places outside the US.

    ------------------------------
    Dan Wyckoff AIA



  • 13.  RE: CAD PROGRAMS

    Posted 04-18-2016 06:11 PM

    Hi Daniel

    Thanks for your comments.  In fact, software license terms can be critically important to a small firm, so I'm glad you mentioned it.  

    In the 'great recession', when I finally had to let go of all of my small staff after going unpaid for over a year holding on to them, I was glad a software subscription was not also hanging over my head.  The fact that Revit has no backward compatibility coupled with the 'subscription' model seems to me to lead to potentially a 'lifetime commitment to annual fees' - irrespective of business conditions.  As an aside, even with Autodesk's now abandoned perpetual license model, in my research I found that if you upgrade 'one' license of a set, you can lose ability to open files from another seat; as you lose the rights to use the 'old' version forever.  That's why I'm happy to leave those perpetual licenses in place 'perpetually'.

    As a small firm principal, these issues were key drivers toward Vectorworks   Although it is true that a new hire is not likely to be 'Vectorworks saavy' I have found the learning curve for simple tasks can be a little as a few minutes; to just a couple of weeks for more complex use.  I bought the 'service select' which gives me unlimited access to experts for questions and tips, and we've made great use of that.  

    ------------------------------
    Michael Malinowski AIA
    AIACC President
    Applied Architecture, Inc.
    Sacramento CA



  • 14.  RE: CAD PROGRAMS

    Posted 04-18-2016 05:36 PM

    You should give a try to Vectorworks, I stated using it since it was MiniCad ('93) back then what caught me was the user friendliness and that architectural feel, which it holds true today in addition to all the 3d and BIM capabilities.

    ------------------------------
    Juan C Fabbiani AIA
    Senior Project Architect
    Vectorworks, Inc
    Columbia MD



  • 15.  RE: CAD PROGRAMS

    Posted 07-04-2016 12:47 AM

    Sketchup has the freeform modelling nailed and gives you the freedom to design and communicate with clients, engineers, builders and manufacturers,  which I believe is its true benefit, however you can find yourself spending a lot of time editing, changing components, setting up scenes and groups when you want to start modifying the model at the time of creating construction documents.

    If you like using Sketchup yet simply wanted to increase the ability to change the model parametrically like ArchiCad and Revit, you could look at some of the extensions available as there are many.  

    BIM/VDC in Sketchup Pro is a reality, the learning curve is shallow and the output can be amazing. If you want to move to stage 2 and really get into BIM in Sketchup the opportunity is there and viable.  There are hundreds of 3D CAD tools on the market, the key is finding one that suits you best. I did this model (4 hours draw time) in Sketchup and with the BIM Plugin PlusSpec. You can now work more efficiently with Sketchup and have an organised model without having make groups, components, or assign IFC categories. 

    To be transparent I do work for RubySketch, yet I also work with Revit users. Many use PlusSpec and Revit in their day to day activities: 

    1. Residential & multi residential BIM/VDC in Sketchup Pro with PlusSpec
    2.  Larger commercial projects Over 10 million EG hospitals in Revit. 

    11yExIQSfukInfosTvpl_virtual design and construction.png

    cJr2fjMXRvabQ9EXzdwm_Sketchup BIM.png

    ------------------------------
    Andrew Dwight
    Designer/BIM manager AAD Build
    BDM RubySketch
    Sydney Australia



  • 16.  RE: CAD PROGRAMS

    Posted 07-05-2016 05:44 PM

    I have used Revit for many project types ranging from office buildings, commercial interiors, multi-family to bath and kitchen remodels. It is not made for a specific project types. Currently we have 2 single family residences on Revit. We are able to use it to design the house and produce the construction documents. We are also able to export into Lumion insert models, trees, landscapes, cars, etc to create client presentations. 

    I feel that Revit allows me to allocate my time from monotonous administrative tasks like layer and xref management to important projects specific design tasks. 

    ------------------------------
    Daniel Guich, NCARB, LEED AP, CDT
    San Francisco, CA



  • 17.  RE: CAD PROGRAMS

    Posted 07-05-2016 07:00 PM
    Hello Bentham,

    Our firm made the jump from BIM to using SketchUp/Layout for construction documents the first of this year. Overall, I am very pleased with the results. The documents look great, we regained efficiency after 4 or 5 smallish projects, and most importantly, I believe that we are more thoughtful and comprehensive in our work. Here are a few things we've learned…
    - Success hinges on being very organized. We've striven to use as few carefully determined SketchUp layers as possible. We draw everything on Layer 0, and then make groups and components, and move those groups and components to appropriate layers.
    - We've been successful having only two SketchUp files per project. One with the overall building model, and one for "details." We haven't had to create separate files for RCPs for example, as some other folks suggest.
    - Similarly in Layout, we use as few layers as possible.
    - SketchUp provides only a couple different line wights - standard and profile. You can apply more line weights in Layout, but don't start tracing everything - don't fight it. In lieu of line weight, use colors, fog, shadows and even perspective to delineate/differentiate materials, surfaces and depth. We've even gone to using a little fog in our floor plans. If color printing is an option, that is obviously a good match.
    - Layout is simple, strictly for notation and graphics. Don't try to use it like 2D CAD.
    - Make your own Scrapbooks and Component Libraries - they are powerful time savers.
    Good luck whatever direction you take.

    Joe Calvin, Project Architect
    Thorp Associates, P.C.
    Architects and Planners
    (970)586-9528
    joe@thorpassoc.com