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I am currently working contract to a design-build contractor who parted ways with his designer in July. Essentially I'm stepping in and working with his existing clients to complete design and construction documents. However, I'm finding myself in a bit of a internal conflict as an architect and firm owner.

I am not contracted to the clients and am not involved in the contractors bidding process. However, I am concerned that his pricing is high on a couple of the projects, and the clients are taking what he tells them at face value and prematurely cutting scope. For my clients, I would have no trouble expressing those concerns as I am their advocate. But what do I do when I'm just the designer on the job? I see them as both clients and not clients. A new experience for me, so any thoughts on this would be great.

Thanks!

------------------------------
Larry Paschall AIA
President/CEO
Spotted Dog Architecture
Dallas TX
------------------------------

You can't have two clients whose interests do not align.  Review your professional ethics.  Your client appears to be the contractor.  If you want to under cut your client, you should quit.

------------------------------
Mike Mense FAIA
Architect, Writer, Planner, Painter
mmenseArchitect
mensenyc on Instagram
Hamilton Heights, NYCf
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11-12-2021 12:30 PM
From: Lawrence Paschall
Subject: Clients/Not Clients

I am currently working contract to a design-build contractor who parted ways with his designer in July. Essentially I'm stepping in and working with his existing clients to complete design and construction documents. However, I'm finding myself in a bit of a internal conflict as an architect and firm owner.

I am not contracted to the clients and am not involved in the contractors bidding process. However, I am concerned that his pricing is high on a couple of the projects, and the clients are taking what he tells them at face value and prematurely cutting scope. For my clients, I would have no trouble expressing those concerns as I am their advocate. But what do I do when I'm just the designer on the job? I see them as both clients and not clients. A new experience for me, so any thoughts on this would be great.

Thanks!

------------------------------
Larry Paschall AIA
President/CEO
Spotted Dog Architecture
Dallas TX
------------------------------

I usually back away from situations where I don't deal directly with the client.  In my 30 plus years of practice that is where I have had issues.  I did accept one project.  It was during one of the several recessions.  So basically I was acting a subcontractor to the contractor.  When his construction deviated from my drawings, I got pulled into a lawsuit.  The contractor's liability insurance basically turned around and sued all the subcontractors on the project.  This is where you can get into trouble.  If the contractor is lead, they can follow your details or not.  Generally, construction observation is limited in these arrangements.  So document any and all deviations from your details to cover yourself from liability.

------------------------------
Christopher Rose AIA, ASID
Senior Architect
LS3P
Columbia SC
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11-15-2021 06:21 PM
From: Mike Mense
Subject: Clients/Not Clients

You can't have two clients whose interests do not align.  Review your professional ethics.  Your client appears to be the contractor.  If you want to under cut your client, you should quit.

------------------------------
Mike Mense FAIA
Architect, Writer, Planner, Painter
mmenseArchitect
mensenyc on Instagram
Hamilton Heights, NYCf

Original Message:
Sent: 11-12-2021 12:30 PM
From: Lawrence Paschall
Subject: Clients/Not Clients

I am currently working contract to a design-build contractor who parted ways with his designer in July. Essentially I'm stepping in and working with his existing clients to complete design and construction documents. However, I'm finding myself in a bit of a internal conflict as an architect and firm owner.

I am not contracted to the clients and am not involved in the contractors bidding process. However, I am concerned that his pricing is high on a couple of the projects, and the clients are taking what he tells them at face value and prematurely cutting scope. For my clients, I would have no trouble expressing those concerns as I am their advocate. But what do I do when I'm just the designer on the job? I see them as both clients and not clients. A new experience for me, so any thoughts on this would be great.

Thanks!

------------------------------
Larry Paschall AIA
President/CEO
Spotted Dog Architecture
Dallas TX
------------------------------

You might think of it as if a custom home client came to you already completely committed to their builder, a distant cousin's friend of a neighbor's son who their friend Suzy used and thought was great.  In that case, the price set by this builder is not to be compared to other builder's prices, it is simply THE price.  Thus any cutting of scope is not premature, it is necessary if they are going to use Suzy's favorite builder.... which they are determined to do.  
Alternatively, you might consider simply following the money:  whoever is paying you, whoever's name is on the other side of the contract, is your client.  Then proceed accordingly.  You may not care for your client's business structure or prices, but this time, he or she is your client and thus deserving of your loyalty.   In the future you might find it more comfortable to insist that your contract is with the home or land owner, not the builder. Best of luck!


------------------------------
Mollie Ackner AIA
Principal
SoliDeo Design Studio
Durham NC
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11-12-2021 12:30 PM
From: Lawrence Paschall
Subject: Clients/Not Clients

I am currently working contract to a design-build contractor who parted ways with his designer in July. Essentially I'm stepping in and working with his existing clients to complete design and construction documents. However, I'm finding myself in a bit of a internal conflict as an architect and firm owner.

I am not contracted to the clients and am not involved in the contractors bidding process. However, I am concerned that his pricing is high on a couple of the projects, and the clients are taking what he tells them at face value and prematurely cutting scope. For my clients, I would have no trouble expressing those concerns as I am their advocate. But what do I do when I'm just the designer on the job? I see them as both clients and not clients. A new experience for me, so any thoughts on this would be great.

Thanks!

------------------------------
Larry Paschall AIA
President/CEO
Spotted Dog Architecture
Dallas TX
------------------------------

I am not sure for other states, but I am pretty sure here in New York, architectural services by a licensed architect can only be provided directly to an owner, and the architect is the owners agent. A contractor can refer you to a client, and you can have both relationships however, your professional service should be to the client directly.

------------------------------
Arben Sela AIA
Principal
BuildPlus Architecture PLLC
West Nyack NY
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11-12-2021 12:30 PM
From: Lawrence Paschall
Subject: Clients/Not Clients

I am currently working contract to a design-build contractor who parted ways with his designer in July. Essentially I'm stepping in and working with his existing clients to complete design and construction documents. However, I'm finding myself in a bit of a internal conflict as an architect and firm owner.

I am not contracted to the clients and am not involved in the contractors bidding process. However, I am concerned that his pricing is high on a couple of the projects, and the clients are taking what he tells them at face value and prematurely cutting scope. For my clients, I would have no trouble expressing those concerns as I am their advocate. But what do I do when I'm just the designer on the job? I see them as both clients and not clients. A new experience for me, so any thoughts on this would be great.

Thanks!

------------------------------
Larry Paschall AIA
President/CEO
Spotted Dog Architecture
Dallas TX
------------------------------

How to say this nicely.

An architect can have a contract with anyone. Even in New York. An engineer, a developer, a government agency, a contractor, even in some cases a renter.

An architect must have one client and one loyalty. If you look this up you will find it In your state’s licensure laws, even in New York, and you will also find it in your AIA Code of Ethics, Rule 3.201

Maybe CRAN could organize a refresher course on “professional practice”?

Sincerely and with good will to all.


Sent from my iPad


Original Message:
Sent: 11/19/2021 9:38:00 AM
From: Arben Sela AIA
Subject: RE: Clients/Not Clients

I am not sure for other states, but I am pretty sure here in New York, architectural services by a licensed architect can only be provided directly to an owner, and the architect is the owners agent. A contractor can refer you to a client, and you can have both relationships however, your professional service should be to the client directly.

------------------------------
Arben Sela AIA
Principal
BuildPlus Architecture PLLC
West Nyack NY
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11-12-2021 12:30 PM
From: Lawrence Paschall
Subject: Clients/Not Clients

I am currently working contract to a design-build contractor who parted ways with his designer in July. Essentially I'm stepping in and working with his existing clients to complete design and construction documents. However, I'm finding myself in a bit of a internal conflict as an architect and firm owner.

I am not contracted to the clients and am not involved in the contractors bidding process. However, I am concerned that his pricing is high on a couple of the projects, and the clients are taking what he tells them at face value and prematurely cutting scope. For my clients, I would have no trouble expressing those concerns as I am their advocate. But what do I do when I'm just the designer on the job? I see them as both clients and not clients. A new experience for me, so any thoughts on this would be great.

Thanks!

------------------------------
Larry Paschall AIA
President/CEO
Spotted Dog Architecture
Dallas TX
------------------------------

You are correct Mike, and thats what I meant, an architect can only have a contract to an owner of a project. That owner can be a GC who is building their office or their property, but you cant provide architectural services through the GC to another client. I think we are saying the same thing

------------------------------
Arben Sela AIA
Principal
BuildPlus Architecture PLLC
West Nyack NY
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11-19-2021 10:00 AM
From: Mike Mense
Subject: Clients/Not Clients

How to say this nicely.

An architect can have a contract with anyone. Even in New York. An engineer, a developer, a government agency, a contractor, even in some cases a renter.

An architect must have one client and one loyalty. If you look this up you will find it In your state's licensure laws, even in New York, and you will also find it in your AIA Code of Ethics, Rule 3.201

Maybe CRAN could organize a refresher course on "professional practice"?

Sincerely and with good will to all.


Sent from my iPad


Original Message:
Sent: 11/19/2021 9:38:00 AM
From: Arben Sela AIA
Subject: RE: Clients/Not Clients

I am not sure for other states, but I am pretty sure here in New York, architectural services by a licensed architect can only be provided directly to an owner, and the architect is the owners agent. A contractor can refer you to a client, and you can have both relationships however, your professional service should be to the client directly.

------------------------------
Arben Sela AIA
Principal
BuildPlus Architecture PLLC
West Nyack NY

Original Message:
Sent: 11-12-2021 12:30 PM
From: Lawrence Paschall
Subject: Clients/Not Clients

I am currently working contract to a design-build contractor who parted ways with his designer in July. Essentially I'm stepping in and working with his existing clients to complete design and construction documents. However, I'm finding myself in a bit of a internal conflict as an architect and firm owner.

I am not contracted to the clients and am not involved in the contractors bidding process. However, I am concerned that his pricing is high on a couple of the projects, and the clients are taking what he tells them at face value and prematurely cutting scope. For my clients, I would have no trouble expressing those concerns as I am their advocate. But what do I do when I'm just the designer on the job? I see them as both clients and not clients. A new experience for me, so any thoughts on this would be great.

Thanks!

------------------------------
Larry Paschall AIA
President/CEO
Spotted Dog Architecture
Dallas TX
------------------------------

In a Design-Build contract arrangement, the Architect may be under contract with the Design-Build Contractor, not directly with the client/owner.  In this case the Architect or Designer of Record is working directly for the Contractor. Even in New York.

------------------------------
Anthony Febrizio
Architect
Oceanside NY
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11-19-2021 10:12 AM
From: Arben Sela
Subject: Clients/Not Clients

You are correct Mike, and thats what I meant, an architect can only have a contract to an owner of a project. That owner can be a GC who is building their office or their property, but you cant provide architectural services through the GC to another client. I think we are saying the same thing

------------------------------
Arben Sela AIA
Principal
BuildPlus Architecture PLLC
West Nyack NY

Original Message:
Sent: 11-19-2021 10:00 AM
From: Mike Mense
Subject: Clients/Not Clients

How to say this nicely.

An architect can have a contract with anyone. Even in New York. An engineer, a developer, a government agency, a contractor, even in some cases a renter.

An architect must have one client and one loyalty. If you look this up you will find it In your state's licensure laws, even in New York, and you will also find it in your AIA Code of Ethics, Rule 3.201

Maybe CRAN could organize a refresher course on "professional practice"?

Sincerely and with good will to all.


Sent from my iPad


Original Message:
Sent: 11/19/2021 9:38:00 AM
From: Arben Sela AIA
Subject: RE: Clients/Not Clients

I am not sure for other states, but I am pretty sure here in New York, architectural services by a licensed architect can only be provided directly to an owner, and the architect is the owners agent. A contractor can refer you to a client, and you can have both relationships however, your professional service should be to the client directly.

------------------------------
Arben Sela AIA
Principal
BuildPlus Architecture PLLC
West Nyack NY

Original Message:
Sent: 11-12-2021 12:30 PM
From: Lawrence Paschall
Subject: Clients/Not Clients

I am currently working contract to a design-build contractor who parted ways with his designer in July. Essentially I'm stepping in and working with his existing clients to complete design and construction documents. However, I'm finding myself in a bit of a internal conflict as an architect and firm owner.

I am not contracted to the clients and am not involved in the contractors bidding process. However, I am concerned that his pricing is high on a couple of the projects, and the clients are taking what he tells them at face value and prematurely cutting scope. For my clients, I would have no trouble expressing those concerns as I am their advocate. But what do I do when I'm just the designer on the job? I see them as both clients and not clients. A new experience for me, so any thoughts on this would be great.

Thanks!

------------------------------
Larry Paschall AIA
President/CEO
Spotted Dog Architecture
Dallas TX
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11/19/2021 10:02:00 AM
From: Mike A. Mense FAIA
Subject: RE: Clients/Not Clients

How to say this nicely.

An architect can have a contract with anyone. Even in New York. An engineer, a developer, a government agency, a contractor, even in some cases a renter.

An architect must have one client and one loyalty. If you look this up you will find it In your state’s licensure laws, even in New York, and you will also find it in your AIA Code of Ethics, Rule 3.201

Maybe CRAN could organize a refresher course on “professional practice”?

Sincerely and with good will to all.


Sent from my iPad


Original Message:
Sent: 11/19/2021 9:38:00 AM
From: Arben Sela AIA
Subject: RE: Clients/Not Clients

I am not sure for other states, but I am pretty sure here in New York, architectural services by a licensed architect can only be provided directly to an owner, and the architect is the owners agent. A contractor can refer you to a client, and you can have both relationships however, your professional service should be to the client directly.

------------------------------
Arben Sela AIA
Principal
BuildPlus Architecture PLLC
West Nyack NY
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11-12-2021 12:30 PM
From: Lawrence Paschall
Subject: Clients/Not Clients

I am currently working contract to a design-build contractor who parted ways with his designer in July. Essentially I'm stepping in and working with his existing clients to complete design and construction documents. However, I'm finding myself in a bit of a internal conflict as an architect and firm owner.

I am not contracted to the clients and am not involved in the contractors bidding process. However, I am concerned that his pricing is high on a couple of the projects, and the clients are taking what he tells them at face value and prematurely cutting scope. For my clients, I would have no trouble expressing those concerns as I am their advocate. But what do I do when I'm just the designer on the job? I see them as both clients and not clients. A new experience for me, so any thoughts on this would be great.

Thanks!

------------------------------
Larry Paschall AIA
President/CEO
Spotted Dog Architecture
Dallas TX
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11/22/2021 5:39:00 PM
From: Brian P. Brady AIA
Subject: RE: Clients/Not Clients

I am currently serving as an expert witness supporting a New York State architect who is being sued by their client, who is a contractor, who in turn is being sued by his client, the building owner and tenant.  While It is not yet the basis of the lawsuit, the contractor has suggested that it was improper for the architect to enter into a contract with him as the contractor. I looked up the State Education Department regulations for architecture and it explicitly states an architect cannot enter into a contract  with a contractor, when a third party is to be the actual user. Given the prevalence of design build I went back and looked it up a second time. There appears to be no ambiguity whatsoever.--

Brian P. Brady, AIA

176 Park Street

Buffalo, NY 14201

716.392.7271

Original Message:
Sent: 11/19/2021 10:02:00 AM
From: Mike A. Mense FAIA
Subject: RE: Clients/Not Clients

How to say this nicely.

An architect can have a contract with anyone. Even in New York. An engineer, a developer, a government agency, a contractor, even in some cases a renter.

An architect must have one client and one loyalty. If you look this up you will find it In your state’s licensure laws, even in New York, and you will also find it in your AIA Code of Ethics, Rule 3.201

Maybe CRAN could organize a refresher course on “professional practice”?

Sincerely and with good will to all.


Sent from my iPad


Original Message:
Sent: 11/19/2021 9:38:00 AM
From: Arben Sela AIA
Subject: RE: Clients/Not Clients

I am not sure for other states, but I am pretty sure here in New York, architectural services by a licensed architect can only be provided directly to an owner, and the architect is the owners agent. A contractor can refer you to a client, and you can have both relationships however, your professional service should be to the client directly.

------------------------------
Arben Sela AIA
Principal
BuildPlus Architecture PLLC
West Nyack NY
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11-12-2021 12:30 PM
From: Lawrence Paschall
Subject: Clients/Not Clients

I am currently working contract to a design-build contractor who parted ways with his designer in July. Essentially I'm stepping in and working with his existing clients to complete design and construction documents. However, I'm finding myself in a bit of a internal conflict as an architect and firm owner.

I am not contracted to the clients and am not involved in the contractors bidding process. However, I am concerned that his pricing is high on a couple of the projects, and the clients are taking what he tells them at face value and prematurely cutting scope. For my clients, I would have no trouble expressing those concerns as I am their advocate. But what do I do when I'm just the designer on the job? I see them as both clients and not clients. A new experience for me, so any thoughts on this would be great.

Thanks!

------------------------------
Larry Paschall AIA
President/CEO
Spotted Dog Architecture
Dallas TX
------------------------------

This is from the NY State Education Department's Practice Guidelines.  Best I can understand it, the intent is to make it illegal for a contractor (a general business corporation) to offer architectural services.  

B. Practice

3. Architects Employed, or Retained, by Contractors

---

One must be licensed in New York State to render or offer to render professional services and architectural services may not be provided by or through a general business corporation.

There is nothing to prevent a contractor from employing or retaining an architect to perform services the company may require so long as the services are not specific to the needs of their client. An example of a service specific to a client is the signing and sealing of documents for the client's project.

If a contractor wishes to construct a project for himself/herself and lease, rent or sell the project when completed, the "in-house" architect may sign and seal the documents. In this situation the contractor is the client and the professional services provided by the architect are to that client.

------------------------------
Brian P. Brady AIA
Buffalo NY
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11-23-2021 02:17 PM
From: Mike Mense
Subject: Clients/Not Clients

Thank you for doing the research.  I would like to see the specific cite and text.  Its hard for me to imagine how a lawyer, or an architect for that  matter, would be able to find anything other than ambiguity in the term "user".

Thanks again and Happy Thanksgiving.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

Original Message:
Sent: 11/22/2021 5:39:00 PM
From: Brian P. Brady AIA
Subject: RE: Clients/Not Clients

I am currently serving as an expert witness supporting a New York State architect who is being sued by their client, who is a contractor, who in turn is being sued by his client, the building owner and tenant.  While It is not yet the basis of the lawsuit, the contractor has suggested that it was improper for the architect to enter into a contract with him as the contractor. I looked up the State Education Department regulations for architecture and it explicitly states an architect cannot enter into a contract  with a contractor, when a third party is to be the actual user. Given the prevalence of design build I went back and looked it up a second time. There appears to be no ambiguity whatsoever.--

Brian P. Brady, AIA

176 Park Street

Buffalo, NY 14201

716.392.7271

Original Message:
Sent: 11/19/2021 10:02:00 AM
From: Mike A. Mense FAIA
Subject: RE: Clients/Not Clients

How to say this nicely.

An architect can have a contract with anyone. Even in New York. An engineer, a developer, a government agency, a contractor, even in some cases a renter.

An architect must have one client and one loyalty. If you look this up you will find it In your state's licensure laws, even in New York, and you will also find it in your AIA Code of Ethics, Rule 3.201

Maybe CRAN could organize a refresher course on "professional practice"?

Sincerely and with good will to all.


Sent from my iPad


Original Message:
Sent: 11/19/2021 9:38:00 AM
From: Arben Sela AIA
Subject: RE: Clients/Not Clients

I am not sure for other states, but I am pretty sure here in New York, architectural services by a licensed architect can only be provided directly to an owner, and the architect is the owners agent. A contractor can refer you to a client, and you can have both relationships however, your professional service should be to the client directly.

------------------------------
Arben Sela AIA
Principal
BuildPlus Architecture PLLC
West Nyack NY

Original Message:
Sent: 11-12-2021 12:30 PM
From: Lawrence Paschall
Subject: Clients/Not Clients

I am currently working contract to a design-build contractor who parted ways with his designer in July. Essentially I'm stepping in and working with his existing clients to complete design and construction documents. However, I'm finding myself in a bit of a internal conflict as an architect and firm owner.

I am not contracted to the clients and am not involved in the contractors bidding process. However, I am concerned that his pricing is high on a couple of the projects, and the clients are taking what he tells them at face value and prematurely cutting scope. For my clients, I would have no trouble expressing those concerns as I am their advocate. But what do I do when I'm just the designer on the job? I see them as both clients and not clients. A new experience for me, so any thoughts on this would be great.

Thanks!

------------------------------
Larry Paschall AIA
President/CEO
Spotted Dog Architecture
Dallas TX
------------------------------

THANK YOU MR. BRADY FOR THAT INFORMATION. WISE ADVISE TO FOLLOW.


Original Message:
Sent: 11/23/2021 2:53:00 PM
From: Brian P. Brady AIA
Subject: RE: Clients/Not Clients


This is from the NY State Education Department's Practice Guidelines.  Best I can understand it, the intent is to make it illegal for a contractor (a general business corporation) to offer architectural services.  

B. Practice

3. Architects Employed, or Retained, by Contractors

---

One must be licensed in New York State to render or offer to render professional services and architectural services may not be provided by or through a general business corporation.

There is nothing to prevent a contractor from employing or retaining an architect to perform services the company may require so long as the services are not specific to the needs of their client. An example of a service specific to a client is the signing and sealing of documents for the client's project.

If a contractor wishes to construct a project for himself/herself and lease, rent or sell the project when completed, the "in-house" architect may sign and seal the documents. In this situation the contractor is the client and the professional services provided by the architect are to that client.

------------------------------
Brian P. Brady AIA
Buffalo NY
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11-23-2021 02:17 PM
From: Mike Mense
Subject: Clients/Not Clients

Thank you for doing the research.  I would like to see the specific cite and text.  Its hard for me to imagine how a lawyer, or an architect for that  matter, would be able to find anything other than ambiguity in the term "user".

Thanks again and Happy Thanksgiving.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

Original Message:
Sent: 11/22/2021 5:39:00 PM
From: Brian P. Brady AIA
Subject: RE: Clients/Not Clients

I am currently serving as an expert witness supporting a New York State architect who is being sued by their client, who is a contractor, who in turn is being sued by his client, the building owner and tenant.  While It is not yet the basis of the lawsuit, the contractor has suggested that it was improper for the architect to enter into a contract with him as the contractor. I looked up the State Education Department regulations for architecture and it explicitly states an architect cannot enter into a contract  with a contractor, when a third party is to be the actual user. Given the prevalence of design build I went back and looked it up a second time. There appears to be no ambiguity whatsoever.--

Brian P. Brady, AIA

176 Park Street

Buffalo, NY 14201

716.392.7271

Original Message:
Sent: 11/19/2021 10:02:00 AM
From: Mike A. Mense FAIA
Subject: RE: Clients/Not Clients

How to say this nicely.

An architect can have a contract with anyone. Even in New York. An engineer, a developer, a government agency, a contractor, even in some cases a renter.

An architect must have one client and one loyalty. If you look this up you will find it In your state's licensure laws, even in New York, and you will also find it in your AIA Code of Ethics, Rule 3.201

Maybe CRAN could organize a refresher course on "professional practice"?

Sincerely and with good will to all.


Sent from my iPad


Original Message:
Sent: 11/19/2021 9:38:00 AM
From: Arben Sela AIA
Subject: RE: Clients/Not Clients

I am not sure for other states, but I am pretty sure here in New York, architectural services by a licensed architect can only be provided directly to an owner, and the architect is the owners agent. A contractor can refer you to a client, and you can have both relationships however, your professional service should be to the client directly.

------------------------------
Arben Sela AIA
Principal
BuildPlus Architecture PLLC
West Nyack NY

Original Message:
Sent: 11-12-2021 12:30 PM
From: Lawrence Paschall
Subject: Clients/Not Clients

I am currently working contract to a design-build contractor who parted ways with his designer in July. Essentially I'm stepping in and working with his existing clients to complete design and construction documents. However, I'm finding myself in a bit of a internal conflict as an architect and firm owner.

I am not contracted to the clients and am not involved in the contractors bidding process. However, I am concerned that his pricing is high on a couple of the projects, and the clients are taking what he tells them at face value and prematurely cutting scope. For my clients, I would have no trouble expressing those concerns as I am their advocate. But what do I do when I'm just the designer on the job? I see them as both clients and not clients. A new experience for me, so any thoughts on this would be great.

Thanks!

------------------------------
Larry Paschall AIA
President/CEO
Spotted Dog Architecture
Dallas TX
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11/19/2021 10:02:00 AM
From: Mike A. Mense FAIA
Subject: RE: Clients/Not Clients

How to say this nicely.

An architect can have a contract with anyone. Even in New York. An engineer, a developer, a government agency, a contractor, even in some cases a renter.

An architect must have one client and one loyalty. If you look this up you will find it In your state’s licensure laws, even in New York, and you will also find it in your AIA Code of Ethics, Rule 3.201

Maybe CRAN could organize a refresher course on “professional practice”?

Sincerely and with good will to all.


Sent from my iPad


Original Message:
Sent: 11/19/2021 9:38:00 AM
From: Arben Sela AIA
Subject: RE: Clients/Not Clients

I am not sure for other states, but I am pretty sure here in New York, architectural services by a licensed architect can only be provided directly to an owner, and the architect is the owners agent. A contractor can refer you to a client, and you can have both relationships however, your professional service should be to the client directly.

------------------------------
Arben Sela AIA
Principal
BuildPlus Architecture PLLC
West Nyack NY
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11-12-2021 12:30 PM
From: Lawrence Paschall
Subject: Clients/Not Clients

I am currently working contract to a design-build contractor who parted ways with his designer in July. Essentially I'm stepping in and working with his existing clients to complete design and construction documents. However, I'm finding myself in a bit of a internal conflict as an architect and firm owner.

I am not contracted to the clients and am not involved in the contractors bidding process. However, I am concerned that his pricing is high on a couple of the projects, and the clients are taking what he tells them at face value and prematurely cutting scope. For my clients, I would have no trouble expressing those concerns as I am their advocate. But what do I do when I'm just the designer on the job? I see them as both clients and not clients. A new experience for me, so any thoughts on this would be great.

Thanks!

------------------------------
Larry Paschall AIA
President/CEO
Spotted Dog Architecture
Dallas TX
------------------------------

I found this article which sheds some light on the design build contract in NYS. The way I am reading it, Education department might be interpreting things differently then the AIA contracts

http://nysspe.org/2020/07/07/private-sector-design-build-in-new-york-state-a-warning-to-the-professional-engineer/

------------------------------
Arben Sela AIA
Principal
BuildPlus Architecture PLLC
West Nyack NY
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Original Message:
Sent: 11-12-2021 12:30 PM
From: Lawrence Paschall
Subject: Clients/Not Clients

I am currently working contract to a design-build contractor who parted ways with his designer in July. Essentially I'm stepping in and working with his existing clients to complete design and construction documents. However, I'm finding myself in a bit of a internal conflict as an architect and firm owner.

I am not contracted to the clients and am not involved in the contractors bidding process. However, I am concerned that his pricing is high on a couple of the projects, and the clients are taking what he tells them at face value and prematurely cutting scope. For my clients, I would have no trouble expressing those concerns as I am their advocate. But what do I do when I'm just the designer on the job? I see them as both clients and not clients. A new experience for me, so any thoughts on this would be great.

Thanks!

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Larry Paschall AIA
President/CEO
Spotted Dog Architecture
Dallas TX
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