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Outdoor Acoustical Control for Outdoor Small Restuarant

  • 1.  Outdoor Acoustical Control for Outdoor Small Restuarant

    Posted 07-19-2021 09:50 AM
    Hello-

    Scene- Small restaurant in old mixed use DT has its rear yard butt up to a pocket of single family homes. New owner of restaurant wishes to add outdoor seating at the rear. Neighbors expressed concern about noise- owner will work out hours of operation and if or when music might be played outside- will work with neighbors and village government.

    However, we have been asked to present noise control options. We showed a wall that was 6-6 high. The planning board would like to see some back up for the material choice.

    Before going to an acoustical engineer, has anyone had experience in this type of question. Recommendations for  a product? A place for guidance that is DIY?

    Thank you

    ------------------------------
    Kathleen Sullivan AIA
    Trio Architecture pllc
    Hastings on Hudson NY
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Outdoor Acoustical Control for Outdoor Small Restuarant

    Posted 07-20-2021 05:29 PM
    Hi Kathleen,
    CMU has decent acoustical values. See the following link for data.

    https://ncma.org/resource/noise-control-with-concrete-masonry/

    Best of luck,

    ------------------------------
    Aaron Hoffmans AIA
    Owner
    Hoffmans Architecture
    Grandview Heights OH
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Outdoor Acoustical Control for Outdoor Small Restuarant

    Posted 07-20-2021 05:35 PM

    You might look at "Acoustiblok"

    We used it on a patio and owners said it worked great.

     

    Good Luck!

     

     

    William Peck, AIA

     

    William Peck & Assoc., Inc.

    a  r  c  h  i  t  e  c  t  s

     

    105 W. Main St.

    Lewisville, Texas 75057

     

    Office  972.221.1424 ext 106

    Cell      214.707.0304

    www.peckarchitects.com






  • 4.  RE: Outdoor Acoustical Control for Outdoor Small Restuarant

    Posted 07-20-2021 06:04 PM
    There are a variety of commercially available sound control barriers. From what you describe, it would likely work better to absorb the noise rather than block it (think concrete highway sound walls). Here is one with a more residential (rather than industrial) look to it: Soundfence & Acoustic Barriers
    Acoustic Sciences Corporation remove preview
    Soundfence & Acoustic Barriers
    Soundfences and Acoustic Barriers We have 3 main solutions to handle residential, commercial and any other outdoor acoustic barriers Residential Soundfence Acoustical Residential SoundFence for reducing sounds in noisy neighborhoods and residential areas. Acoustic fences will reduce the sound from heat pumps, pool filters, pool pumps, traffic noise and more.
    View this on Acoustic Sciences Corporation >


    One of the issues you will be facing will be the physical characteristics of the space. Obviously, a 6'-6" fence is not going to block noise to second (or more) floors overlooking the space. Also, if the space is surrounded by taller buildings, the sound will reflect off of those as well and likely circumvent the wall.



    ------------------------------
    Thomas Bank AIA
    Principal Architect
    Simply Stated Architecture, P.C.
    Lemoyne PA
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Outdoor Acoustical Control for Outdoor Small Restuarant

    Posted 07-21-2021 07:27 PM
    Another option might be Acoustimac Mass Wall Vinyl. It comes in rolls and can be applied to walls and ceilings, fairly affordable as well...

    ------------------------------
    Jeffery Sweitzer AIA
    Owner-Principal
    J. Sweitzer - Architects, LLC
    Edina MN
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Outdoor Acoustical Control for Outdoor Small Restuarant

    Posted 07-22-2021 11:06 PM
    It would be wise to offer something for the neighbors.  A perimeter wall from their side would offer nothing.  If you want their buy-in, try considering articulating it with some shrubs on their side.  Or other ways to make it an interesting feature that they would appreciate.

    ------------------------------
    William Figdor, AIA
    Art & Architecture, LLC
    Maplewood, NJ
    Figdor@mac.com
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: Outdoor Acoustical Control for Outdoor Small Restuarant

    Posted 07-23-2021 05:44 PM
    We have had some luck, over the years, with canopies, awnings and table umbrellas. There is no data available (believable), but effort and perceptions can go a long way with neighbors as long as the attorneys have not been involved yet.




  • 8.  RE: Outdoor Acoustical Control for Outdoor Small Restuarant

    Posted 07-23-2021 06:19 PM

    There seems to be all whole lot of confusion in this thread regarding sound absorption vs. sound attenuation.

     

    James G. Richardson AIA LEED-AP

    Richardson & Associates Architects

    210 Noble Avenue

    Montgomery, AL 36101

    com 334-262-3444

    mob 334-328-0747

    fax 334-262-4104

     

     

     






  • 9.  RE: Outdoor Acoustical Control for Outdoor Small Restuarant

    Posted 07-26-2021 07:43 PM

    There are ways of reducing the "loudness" of the sound/music/live performances/etc. Maybe you might want to consider this, as opposed to an architectural solution.

     

    If you've ever heard a car with a loud stereo, you will relate to this. Short wavelength sound (higher pitch/whispers/tapping) can in fact be dispersed/absorbed/masked/deflected with fairly thin materials,; car windows, sheetrock, thick hedges. Landscaping and walls do a great job at this. It's the long wave length (bass beats/vibrations and lower "notes") sound that is nearly impossible to control. When a car playing loud music (with the windows rolled up) passed by, it's those pesky low wave sounds that you hear and feel. Think "thump, thump, thump". Airborne low wave frequencies are extremely difficult to attenuate.

     

    However, you might want to look into "sound pressure limiters" on the sound system which limits the amount of low wave frequency pressure and vibrations. They basically eliminate the "head pounding" effect of sound. This is a special piece of equipment that filters out the lowest end of the sound but leaves the sound still intelligible. In a restaurant setting, most people begin to amplify their own speaking when they can't hear intelligibly what other people are saying. A natural response. Sound pressure limiters just remove the "loudness" (pressure on the ear) that causes this to occur.

     

    I'm not recommending any particular manufacturer, and this is such a common problem that there are tons of companies in this business, but here is an example of one with an explanation of what it does. https://fitnessaudioshop.com.au/products/gov-nor-sound-limiter

     

    Best of luck with this,

     

    Mark Forth, AIA, NCARB

     

    Sent from Mail for Windows 10

     






  • 10.  RE: Outdoor Acoustical Control for Outdoor Small Restuarant

    Posted 07-21-2021 09:06 AM
    Consider SONEX sound absorption foam over the fence's entire surface area.

    ------------------------------
    William Eberhard AIA
    Managing Partner
    Eberhard Architects LLC
    Cleveland OH
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Outdoor Acoustical Control for Outdoor Small Restuarant

    Posted 07-22-2021 05:55 PM

    I know of no evidence that landscaping (plantings) will have any measurable effect on sound absorption. In our experience, even a fence, mass wall, or a barrier incorporating sound absorption material will not provide a sound level reduction more than 5 to 10 dB.   Before-and-after testing test with a meter might detect a reduction in sound level, but your neighbor's ears will still hear the music and will likely not be appeased by attempts to block amplified music with a barrier.






  • 12.  RE: Outdoor Acoustical Control for Outdoor Small Restuarant

    Posted 07-22-2021 07:24 PM
    Under the circumstances, I would suggest to shift the acoustical liability to an expert w/ full by in w/owner.


    Sent from my iPhone




  • 13.  RE: Outdoor Acoustical Control for Outdoor Small Restuarant

    Posted 07-21-2021 10:12 AM
    I suggest adding in landscaping to absorb noise 
    Thomas Hirsch, FAIA
    HIRSCH GROUP ARCHITECTURE

    14 North Allen Street
    Madison WI 53726-3924

    608 332 7797 








  • 14.  RE: Outdoor Acoustical Control for Outdoor Small Restuarant

    Posted 07-23-2021 05:40 PM
    Few thoughts,

    -Acoustic panels against wall: although sound will escape up, I agree with all the comments that there are endless acoustic panel solutions available nowadays to help absorb noise. The climate may be the largest factor in which of these solutions would be compatible.

    -Haybale constructed wall as is (refer to Deckman's, Valle de Guadalupe) or with a concrete, lime plaster or stucco finish

    -Screening Plants in front of a CMU wall.

    -Absorptive upholstery/cushions integrated into seating. This seems to be effective in auditorium design.

    -Decorative outdoor umbrellas or a pergola with retractable fabric top may help contain/absorb a small fraction of noise and provide a nice atmosphere at night with bistro lights.

    Best of luck!

    ------------------------------
    Anna Kissell Assoc. AIA
    Founder
    Summit Architecture and Design, LLC
    Manhattan Beach CA
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: Outdoor Acoustical Control for Outdoor Small Restuarant

    Posted 07-26-2021 07:04 PM
    Kathleen,
    We don't have experience with restaurants but do considerable work with outdoor dog kennels and play yards so deal with noise issues regularly. First - short of a complete enclosure there is no way to isolate the higher sound pressure level sources like music. Walls or a fence will be ineffective as the sound will easily flank over, and as others have said reverberate off surrounding buildings.

    Your best option is to mitigate by absorption rather than attenuation through some kind of barrier. By minimizing reflected sounds you can minimize perceived loudness at a distance. Every available surface should have some level of sound capture or at least break up discrete impulses. Can the ground be a synthetic turf, or at least gravel?  Acoustically a concrete slab is the worst option. Surrounding walls should have the highest NRC you can manage. The most important step would be to add a permanent awing or roof cover. In our kennel runs we use an exterior grade sound absorbing soffit material. Our preferred is a 1" Tectum panel backed with 2" sound batts. With an NRC of almost 1.0 it makes for a very effective control measure. We've used this in projects across the country including Florida high-velocity hurricane zones.

    There should be no expectation of complete sound isolation - there will be some noise making it to the neighbors. How much is too much is subjective so as others have suggested try to get them in favor by offering some form of offsetting amenity - landscaping or other physical improvement, or perhaps free meals or discounted pricing.

    ------------------------------
    Paul Gladysz AIA
    Partner
    BDA Architecture, P.C.
    Albuquerque NM
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: Outdoor Acoustical Control for Outdoor Small Restuarant

    Posted 07-27-2021 09:23 AM
    An inexpensive trick we learned from a restaurant manager is to carpet the underside of the tables. While out of the path of direct sound, this does help hold down higher frequency noise and at least enables local conversation. And it is the cheapest solution around with no impact on visual aesthetics.

    ------------------------------
    Philip Kabza AIA
    Principal
    SpecGuy Specifications Consultants
    Mount Dora FL
    ------------------------------