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Sound insulating PVC plumbing

Julia E. Bright AIA04-10-2020 17:38

  • 1.  Sound insulating PVC plumbing

    Posted 04-06-2020 19:12
    What is the consensus on the best way to sound insulate existing PVC DWV pipes in walls and ceilings?  Spray foam, pipe sound insulation and mineral wool are being investigated for a client.

    ------------------------------
    Michael Blaes AIA
    Principal
    Blaes Architects
    Webster Groves MO
    ------------------------------
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  • 2.  RE: Sound insulating PVC plumbing

    Posted 04-07-2020 17:27
    Maybe a combination of pipe insulation and foam? Replace the drain lines with cast iron if you can. Also, try sound-isolating wall-board - Quiet Rok or similar - on BOTH sides of the wall. Nothing deadens sound quite like mass.

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    Judith Wasserman AIA
    Bressack & Wasserman
    Palo Alto CA
    ------------------------------

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  • 3.  RE: Sound insulating PVC plumbing

    Posted 04-08-2020 17:28
    I have used carpet padding to wrap PVC pipe with good results.  Cast iron is certainly a better choice, but budget limitations are the driving force in most cases.  Carpet pad and duct tape, can't go wrong with it.

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    David Cornes AIA
    President
    David Cornes Architect
    Antioch IL
    ------------------------------

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  • 4.  RE: Sound insulating PVC plumbing

    Posted 04-08-2020 17:51

    Hi,

    We've had good luck wrapping the pipe in a membrane, then filling the stud bay with spray foam.  The wrap is just an  isolation idea in case the pipe one day needs to be serviced or the insulation removed... Where noise is an issue we do this whether we use plastic or cast-iron. 

     

    Marc Bailey, AIA

    Pelone Bailey Architects

    38 Main Street  |  Chatham, New York

     




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  • 5.  RE: Sound insulating PVC plumbing

    Posted 04-07-2020 17:46
    Please do not use PVC. It is one of the most toxic materials in the industry.  Please use ABS instead.  Sound insulation measures are the same. 



    Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone




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  • 6.  RE: Sound insulating PVC plumbing

    Posted 04-07-2020 17:59

    David - 

    Michael said he had EXISTING PVC, as in, stuck with it.
    Judith



    ------------------------------
    Judith Wasserman AIA
    Bressack & Wasserman
    Palo Alto CA
    ------------------------------

    Open: Call for applications deadline November 6. Learn more and apply to join your Knowledge Community leadership!


  • 7.  RE: Sound insulating PVC plumbing

    Posted 04-07-2020 19:30

    Most light weight insulation materials will do a poor job in dampening water noise because such sounds include low frequency, long wave length sound which are not intercepted by light weight fibrous or cellular materials.  The remedy you probably have already heard is take out the PVC and install no-hub cast iron in the vertical sections.  (Less noise will be coming from ceiling piping because flow in horizontal runs is generally laminar and not turbulent as it is in vertical sections.)  You need the mass of the cast iron to intercept the low frequency noise.  You could try mass-loaded vinyl pipe wrap, but that will be less successful than cast iron because the mass of the wrap will be significantly less than the mass of the cast iron.  The amount of noise dampening will be proportional to the mass of the pipe or pipe wrap.

     

    Carl Mezoff

    A  r  c  h  i  t  e  c  t,   P.  E.

    1100 Rock Rimmon Road

    Stamford, CT 06903

    203 329 0066

    cmezoff@optonline.net

     




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  • 8.  RE: Sound insulating PVC plumbing

    Posted 04-07-2020 19:37
    What Carl said.
    Judith

    ------------------------------
    Judith Wasserman AIA
    Bressack & Wasserman
    Palo Alto CA
    ------------------------------

    Open: Call for applications deadline November 6. Learn more and apply to join your Knowledge Community leadership!


  • 9.  RE: Sound insulating PVC plumbing

    Posted 04-08-2020 18:17
    Apologies for possibly double-posting; I thought I posted this earlier today, but it has not shown up.


    From my acoustic consultant (Acentech in Cambridge, MA):

    PVC waste lines: 

    Insulation: 1 lb psf reinforced-foil faced loaded vinyl barrier bonded to a 1" thick scrim faced quilted fiberglass absorber:
    Sound Seal B-10 LAG/QFA-3, or equal by Kinetics Noise Control or others.
    https://www.soundseal.com/files/content/industrial/pipe_and_duct/B10LAGQFA3.pdf 

    Resilient pipe supports to prevent pipe from rigidly contacting drywall or framing and transmitting vibration and noise to structure:
    https://holdrite.com/download/brochure-silencer/?wpdmdl=65&ind=0 


    Philip Kramer AIA
    Philip Kramer Architect LLC
    Brookline, MA



    Open: Call for applications deadline November 6. Learn more and apply to join your Knowledge Community leadership!


  • 10.  RE: Sound insulating PVC plumbing

    Posted 04-08-2020 10:29
    Thanks Carl, this is very helpful.  Thanks all for the responses.

    ------------------------------
    Michael Blaes AIA
    Principal
    Michael E. Blaes, AIA
    Webster Groves MO
    ------------------------------

    Open: Call for applications deadline November 6. Learn more and apply to join your Knowledge Community leadership!


  • 11.  RE: Sound insulating PVC plumbing

    Posted 04-08-2020 13:01
    From my acoustic consultant (Acentech in Cambridge, MA):

    PVC waste lines:

    Insulation: 1 lb psf reinforced-foil faced loaded vinyl barrier bonded to a 1" thick scrim faced quilted fiberglass absorber:

    Sound Seal B-10 LAG/QFA-3, or equal by Kinetics Noise Control or others:

    https://www.soundseal.com/files/content/industrial/pipe_and_duct/B10LAGQFA3.pdf 

    Resilient pipe supports to prevent pipe from rigidly contacting drywall or framing and transmitting vibration and noise to structure:

     https://holdrite.com/download/brochure-silencer/?wpdmdl=65&ind=0




    Philip Kramer AIA

    Philip Kramer Architect LLC
    Brookline, MA



    Open: Call for applications deadline November 6. Learn more and apply to join your Knowledge Community leadership!


  • 12.  RE: Sound insulating PVC plumbing

    Posted 04-08-2020 17:53
    If you have room to build a chase in the wall a 4" thickness of Aerated Autoclaved Concrete may work well. Can't help with the ceiling though. See aerconaac.com for details and specifications. Also provides fire protectio up to 4 hours.

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    Louis Smith
    Microtecture of North Carolina, PLLC
    Charlotte NC
    ------------------------------

    Open: Call for applications deadline November 6. Learn more and apply to join your Knowledge Community leadership!


  • 13.  RE: Sound insulating PVC plumbing

    Posted 04-09-2020 17:27

    You might consider "Acoustidrain": https://www.resisto.ca/en/product/acoustidrain-1971/

     

    I used in once a few yrs ago in my own house, to wrap PVC toilet sewer drain inside wall down through the first floor.  It arrives as a kit, ready to wrap and seal. Followed the instructions carefully, and I found it was quite effective.

     

     

     

    Eugene Aleci RA, AIA, AICP

    President, Community Heritage Partners

    P  717.393.1639

    E  aleci@chpartners.net

    355 West Orange Street

    Lancaster, PA 17603-3736

    chpartners.net

    [View this post online to see image]

    [View this post online to see image]

     

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  • 14.  RE: Sound insulating PVC plumbing

    Posted 04-10-2020 17:38
    Edited by Julia Bright 04-10-2020 17:40
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