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Hi Tara, thanks very much for your response, and your understanding of the situation - a tough case, indeed.The project's drawings were produced with AutoCAD.Agree that - ideally - the consultants should each be responsible for verifying and certifying that construction reasonably replicates their design.If we end up certifying the consultants' drawings too, what kind of agreement should be in place between us?
I have asked our E&O insurance company to weigh in, as this could directly impact our insurance coverage.The mind boggles/sphincters pucker...Dennis Glynn AIA
Hi Dennis, I have been out of practice long enough to know I cannot provide any response that would be current and/or helpful regarding your situation.
It would be my professional recommendation that you ask for (if not demand) a written waiver of liability for your firm's involvement in this process, no exclusions...full waiver. Given the demonstrated lack of 'moral' character by these people, I would also recommend that your firm not proceed without asking for 50% of your total fee for your services to be paid in advance, with the balance to be paid, in-hand, at the time your firm provides your completed certification documents.
This appears to be about as high-risk an endeavor as one can conjure, and you and your firm do not need the hassle and potential misery, without these two conditions being agreed to in writing.
Steve L. Wintner, AIA Emeritus
You better check your liability insurance before certifying anything.
john w. strandberg, email@example.com
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G A R C I A S T R O M B E R G │GS4studios
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I am a licensed architect but have been a retail shopping center and mall developer for 20+ years. I always require my contractors to provide as-builts. I may have the architect look them over, but I hold the contractors completely responsible for documenting their in-field changes. If you are not on-site every day, and even if you are, how will you be sure you know all the changes that may end up in the job for one reason or the other. If I were a practicing architect, I would not take on this task.
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This should be a simple summary:
One methodology to reduce the tension between this request, would be to ensure that the "Close-Out" Section, General Conditions, and/or Division 01 of the Contract Documents clearly depicts this scenario.
Ray L. Chandler, Assoc. AIA, CSI, NFPA, ICC
President and CEO
L.A.M.B. Oxford Management and Technology Company, Inc.
dba: Lamb Oxford MTC, Inc.
a general, design, construction, and data management consultancy
6754 Bernal Ave., #740-414
Pleasanton, CA 94566-1218
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I have taken this request in the past and substituted "as built" with "as designed" - for many of the reasons stated. This "as designed" set would include all revisions and field sketches issued to date. Ultimately this is really what the client needs.
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The contractor is responsible for recording conditions that are different from the construction documents. And as much as CMs may try to leverage us to do their work in this matter, our conventional responsibility as an architect is to be generally knowledgeable about the delivery of the project in accordance with the construction documents and so our knowledge of changes in the field is equally limited. And as architects we are responsible for incorporating formal change order revisions – something we typically distribute as sketches and generate these using the BIM model so this is usually up to date with the changes we have documented.
I believe the real value for record drawings is to reveal concealed conditions and major building systems. I will add that components of a building that can be observed and measured easily without selective demolition are usually redrawn by the next architect when a building is under-going a future renovation. Few architects trust or rely on record drawings except for general information and part of their services will likely be the preparation of measured drawings using the original record drawings as a general reference. The record BIM model and drawings to some extent has a great utility for Owners to manage their own inventories, maintenance, schedule and occupants of the rooms, etc.
Terry Scott Forbes
200 E Market Street
Charlottesville, VA 22902
Unless it is already in your contract, I would not do this work. Architects typically do not "certify" anything. Talk with your E&O carrier. As for as liability, one lawsuit will change your mind about no liability. If the DOJ or an attorney were to have a group survey the property and find any ADA violations, everyone involved will likely be brought to the table and threatened with a lawsuit. Also, since ADA is civil rights law, there is no statute of limitations. I've been there and it's not pretty.
Steve Davis, AIA
Architecture Planning Interior Design
129 S. President Street
Dennis,Having worked in affordable housing projects for the past 4 years, let me warn you I've seen some incredible things, and have resolved to never work on those projects again. But here are some industry-standard practices for R.A.'s meant to keep your license intact and you not thrown under the bus.
If you haven't written into your original Contract "services subsequent and additional to the services defined herein will be additional to the Contract at the following rates...(chart with monetary amounts designated per each hierarchical employee of the firm) you may now negotiate additional services if you are at least 75% paid on the project.
It also should have stipulated in your Contract with the Owner the General Contractor will provide a redlined as-built set. If you have that, you can additionally mark that up, staple your final punch list to the GC's redline set and stamp ONLY your punch list.
If it is in your Contract to provide as-built's , you may include your punch list items directly red-lined into the set, AND include your final punch list on the cover sheet (pdf it into the AutoCAD drawing). You can stamp that and not lose sleep.
The "the 8609's and regulatory agreement…" between the State and the Housing Authority is really not your problem.
If you cannot negotiate additional fees for services outside of the Contract, and your original Contract did not stipulate the General Contractor is to provide a redlined as-built set, then you cut your losses. DO NOT agree to stamp whatever they want.
Lastly, the MEP consultants are to do their own as-builts, but you will have to redline those as well, because R.A.'s are liable for consultant drawing discrepancies! See Architect's Handbook of Professional Practice.
Hope this helps. Cheers!
Dennis: I am not sure in your case if this is an option but in 18 years of business whenever we have been asked for "as built" drawings we say we do not offer that service. I don't know what it is about us as architects but "no" does not come easily to us. For true as builts you would need to have had someone on site 24/7 which is why generally the contractor is responsible for this. There is no way after the fact you can produce accurate as-builts for you and all of your consultants (nor can they unless this was known from day one).
Refuse to take on liability that is not yours and, I am sure, you would not be well compensated for. It does not matter what drafting program you used you have no idea, 100%, what was built. Protect yourself and politely say no.