Historic Resources Committee

I have used foam spray between roof rafters in older buildings with good success. However, due to the historic and special nature of this structure I would not do that here. Allow the roof structure to continue to breathe with proper ventilation and place insulation in the attic floor. This allows future people to research the roof structure.
My two cents worth.


Original Message:
Sent: 8/18/2020 12:38:00 AM
From: Charles O. Griffin
Subject: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Fellow Architects,

I am a retired Architect who own a historic Jail building built in 1825.

After 103 years of abandonment and complete neglect (except for my 33 years ownership) I'm converting it into a residence. To make it more livable I'm adding a one story addition.

My question is about how to insulate the attic.

Most of the the slate roof has been repaired by installing new sheathing where needed, removal of the remarkable Swedish Iron nails and relaying with copper nails the Munson Maine Slate ( a product with a long lifetime ) .

Advice I'm receiving here is to install a closed cell urethane spray foam insulation on the roofs woodwork and not the floor.

While this yields an attic that can house mechanical equipment and possibly interfere with the post beetles if they still are working, I am worried that this sticky application will make future roof repairs impossible. Leaks from above would cause rot that would be very difficult to repair. And ruin the original remarkable woodwork,

Important whether seen or not.

This structure, designed by Stuart A. Park , a powerhouse architect of his day, deserves the best solution.

What should that be?

Please advise,

Charles Griffin

Architect

MA

Original Message:
Sent: 8/19/2020 5:26:00 PM
From: Robert Howard Sweetser
Subject: RE: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

I have used foam spray between roof rafters in older buildings with good success. However, due to the historic and special nature of this structure I would not do that here. Allow the roof structure to continue to breathe with proper ventilation and place insulation in the attic floor. This allows future people to research the roof structure.
My two cents worth.


Original Message:
Sent: 8/18/2020 12:38:00 AM
From: Charles O. Griffin
Subject: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Fellow Architects,

I am a retired Architect who own a historic Jail building built in 1825.

After 103 years of abandonment and complete neglect (except for my 33 years ownership) I'm converting it into a residence. To make it more livable I'm adding a one story addition.

My question is about how to insulate the attic.

Most of the the slate roof has been repaired by installing new sheathing where needed, removal of the remarkable Swedish Iron nails and relaying with copper nails the Munson Maine Slate ( a product with a long lifetime ) .

Advice I'm receiving here is to install a closed cell urethane spray foam insulation on the roofs woodwork and not the floor.

While this yields an attic that can house mechanical equipment and possibly interfere with the post beetles if they still are working, I am worried that this sticky application will make future roof repairs impossible. Leaks from above would cause rot that would be very difficult to repair. And ruin the original remarkable woodwork,

Important whether seen or not.

This structure, designed by Stuart A. Park , a powerhouse architect of his day, deserves the best solution.

What should that be?

Please advise,

Charles Griffin

Architect

MA

I think foaming the underside of the roof has been pushed by the foam insulation industry.  In the hot humid south where I live, most of the mechanical and ductwork systems are placed in an attic area.  The best practice is not to locate these things in an unconditioned space - like the attic.  So they started foaming the underside of the roof to enclose the attic to be a semi-conditioned space.  Good design would be to incorporate all of the mechanical below the attic and let an attic be an attic.  In this situation you can combat heat gain in all three ways it is transferred - conduction, convection and radiation by using insulation on the floor of the attic, ventilating the attic space in a natural way (hot air rises) and placing a radiant barrier at the underside of the roof with shiny side facing down but allowing a vented opening to the radiant barrier at the bottom and the ridge.

------------------------------
Edward Cazayoux FAIA
Principal/Architect
EnvironMental Design
Breaux Bridge LA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-19-2020 17:25
From: Robert Sweetser
Subject: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

I have used foam spray between roof rafters in older buildings with good success. However, due to the historic and special nature of this structure I would not do that here. Allow the roof structure to continue to breathe with proper ventilation and place insulation in the attic floor. This allows future people to research the roof structure.
My two cents worth.


Original Message:
Sent: 8/18/2020 12:38:00 AM
From: Charles O. Griffin
Subject: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Fellow Architects,

I am a retired Architect who own a historic Jail building built in 1825.

After 103 years of abandonment and complete neglect (except for my 33 years ownership) I'm converting it into a residence. To make it more livable I'm adding a one story addition.

My question is about how to insulate the attic.

Most of the the slate roof has been repaired by installing new sheathing where needed, removal of the remarkable Swedish Iron nails and relaying with copper nails the Munson Maine Slate ( a product with a long lifetime ) .

Advice I'm receiving here is to install a closed cell urethane spray foam insulation on the roofs woodwork and not the floor.

While this yields an attic that can house mechanical equipment and possibly interfere with the post beetles if they still are working, I am worried that this sticky application will make future roof repairs impossible. Leaks from above would cause rot that would be very difficult to repair. And ruin the original remarkable woodwork,

Important whether seen or not.

This structure, designed by Stuart A. Park , a powerhouse architect of his day, deserves the best solution.

What should that be?

Please advise,

Charles Griffin

Architect

MA

Original Message:
Sent: 8/21/2020 6:13:00 AM
From: Edward J. Cazayoux FAIA
Subject: RE: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

I think foaming the underside of the roof has been pushed by the foam insulation industry.  In the hot humid south where I live, most of the mechanical and ductwork systems are placed in an attic area.  The best practice is not to locate these things in an unconditioned space - like the attic.  So they started foaming the underside of the roof to enclose the attic to be a semi-conditioned space.  Good design would be to incorporate all of the mechanical below the attic and let an attic be an attic.  In this situation you can combat heat gain in all three ways it is transferred - conduction, convection and radiation by using insulation on the floor of the attic, ventilating the attic space in a natural way (hot air rises) and placing a radiant barrier at the underside of the roof with shiny side facing down but allowing a vented opening to the radiant barrier at the bottom and the ridge.

------------------------------
Edward Cazayoux FAIA
Principal/Architect
EnvironMental Design
Breaux Bridge LA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-19-2020 17:25
From: Robert Sweetser
Subject: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

I have used foam spray between roof rafters in older buildings with good success. However, due to the historic and special nature of this structure I would not do that here. Allow the roof structure to continue to breathe with proper ventilation and place insulation in the attic floor. This allows future people to research the roof structure.
My two cents worth.


Original Message:
Sent: 8/18/2020 12:38:00 AM
From: Charles O. Griffin
Subject: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Fellow Architects,

I am a retired Architect who own a historic Jail building built in 1825.

After 103 years of abandonment and complete neglect (except for my 33 years ownership) I'm converting it into a residence. To make it more livable I'm adding a one story addition.

My question is about how to insulate the attic.

Most of the the slate roof has been repaired by installing new sheathing where needed, removal of the remarkable Swedish Iron nails and relaying with copper nails the Munson Maine Slate ( a product with a long lifetime ) .

Advice I'm receiving here is to install a closed cell urethane spray foam insulation on the roofs woodwork and not the floor.

While this yields an attic that can house mechanical equipment and possibly interfere with the post beetles if they still are working, I am worried that this sticky application will make future roof repairs impossible. Leaks from above would cause rot that would be very difficult to repair. And ruin the original remarkable woodwork,

Important whether seen or not.

This structure, designed by Stuart A. Park , a powerhouse architect of his day, deserves the best solution.

What should that be?

Please advise,

Charles Griffin

Architect

MA

Original Message:
Sent: 8/26/2020 11:42:00 AM
From: Charles O. Griffin
Subject: RE: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

To Edward ,

And all architects who have assisted me,

I've decided to not use any foam in the attic for the good reasons you have presented and the other desire to "do no harm". The fine woodwork in the attic has worked for 196 years in spite of very poor slate repairs and complete abandonment. I will insulate at the top of the ceiling slabs as was done 25 years ago. I removed the material to be able to clean the tops of the ceiling slabs of rubbish. I will let you know as to which insulation I place above the irregular floor of the attic. What follows is a further explanation of the property.

 I'm replacing slate with copper on a dormer. This done as the snow avalanche coming off the hip roof

distroys the pediment dormer causing leaks thus woodwork.

The plans for the Gaol Building survive.  I've been able to determine that Stuart Park who designed and constructed the New Hampshire Statehouse and the dry dock in Charlestown Navy yard among many other works was the architect.

The "Traveling Court" of Essex County MA. engaged Park to design and build the Gaol and apparently directed the wasteful and debilitating use of two inch square iron bars, assembled in a lattice, riveted and let four inches into the adjacent granite blocks. This was then repeated again two feet away  just before the sash. The window couldn't be opened from the inside as the walls are three feet thick.The sun couldn't reach the inside. The same system had been used in a previous Gaol built  in Salem MA. Hard to believe an architect as talented as Park would design such a wasteful and inhuman system. So I have finally decided to carefully remove the bars and store them for a possible future replacement and allow this remarkable but dead building to have a useful life.

 

I believe that even with the bars removed from the cells that people would not use the building. So I'm adding a one story light filled room twenty by twenty six.   

After the deck was installed I decided to create a porch to enable a Distyle in Antis Greek porch to be created.

Wanting the woodwork to match the gravitas of the Granite and Iron work I used two Longleaf pine beams 46' 5" long with a 10" X 14" cross section.

After a ceremony they were cut in half and along with two hundred twenty  year old pine lumber from a barn form the ceiling and floor of the addition. 

Thanks again for your support,

Chuck Griffin

Architect

Original Message:
Sent: 8/21/2020 6:13:00 AM
From: Edward J. Cazayoux FAIA
Subject: RE: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

I think foaming the underside of the roof has been pushed by the foam insulation industry.  In the hot humid south where I live, most of the mechanical and ductwork systems are placed in an attic area.  The best practice is not to locate these things in an unconditioned space - like the attic.  So they started foaming the underside of the roof to enclose the attic to be a semi-conditioned space.  Good design would be to incorporate all of the mechanical below the attic and let an attic be an attic.  In this situation you can combat heat gain in all three ways it is transferred - conduction, convection and radiation by using insulation on the floor of the attic, ventilating the attic space in a natural way (hot air rises) and placing a radiant barrier at the underside of the roof with shiny side facing down but allowing a vented opening to the radiant barrier at the bottom and the ridge.

------------------------------
Edward Cazayoux FAIA
Principal/Architect
EnvironMental Design
Breaux Bridge LA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-19-2020 17:25
From: Robert Sweetser
Subject: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

I have used foam spray between roof rafters in older buildings with good success. However, due to the historic and special nature of this structure I would not do that here. Allow the roof structure to continue to breathe with proper ventilation and place insulation in the attic floor. This allows future people to research the roof structure.
My two cents worth.


Original Message:
Sent: 8/18/2020 12:38:00 AM
From: Charles O. Griffin
Subject: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Fellow Architects,

I am a retired Architect who own a historic Jail building built in 1825.

After 103 years of abandonment and complete neglect (except for my 33 years ownership) I'm converting it into a residence. To make it more livable I'm adding a one story addition.

My question is about how to insulate the attic.

Most of the the slate roof has been repaired by installing new sheathing where needed, removal of the remarkable Swedish Iron nails and relaying with copper nails the Munson Maine Slate ( a product with a long lifetime ) .

Advice I'm receiving here is to install a closed cell urethane spray foam insulation on the roofs woodwork and not the floor.

While this yields an attic that can house mechanical equipment and possibly interfere with the post beetles if they still are working, I am worried that this sticky application will make future roof repairs impossible. Leaks from above would cause rot that would be very difficult to repair. And ruin the original remarkable woodwork,

Important whether seen or not.

This structure, designed by Stuart A. Park , a powerhouse architect of his day, deserves the best solution.

What should that be?

Please advise,

Charles Griffin

Architect

MA

Original Message:
Sent: 8/27/2020 5:26:00 PM
From: Grace Lynch AIA
Subject: RE: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

An architect in NJ who never uses foam insulation in interiors of wood famed roofs – buildings need to breathe as much as we do -  I am glad I am not alone!

Recommend rock wool insulation

Grace Lynch

Original Message:
Sent: 8/26/2020 11:42:00 AM
From: Charles O. Griffin
Subject: RE: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

To Edward ,

And all architects who have assisted me,

I've decided to not use any foam in the attic for the good reasons you have presented and the other desire to "do no harm". The fine woodwork in the attic has worked for 196 years in spite of very poor slate repairs and complete abandonment. I will insulate at the top of the ceiling slabs as was done 25 years ago. I removed the material to be able to clean the tops of the ceiling slabs of rubbish. I will let you know as to which insulation I place above the irregular floor of the attic. What follows is a further explanation of the property.

 I'm replacing slate with copper on a dormer. This done as the snow avalanche coming off the hip roof

distroys the pediment dormer causing leaks thus woodwork.

The plans for the Gaol Building survive.  I've been able to determine that Stuart Park who designed and constructed the New Hampshire Statehouse and the dry dock in Charlestown Navy yard among many other works was the architect.

The "Traveling Court" of Essex County MA. engaged Park to design and build the Gaol and apparently directed the wasteful and debilitating use of two inch square iron bars, assembled in a lattice, riveted and let four inches into the adjacent granite blocks. This was then repeated again two feet away  just before the sash. The window couldn't be opened from the inside as the walls are three feet thick.The sun couldn't reach the inside. The same system had been used in a previous Gaol built  in Salem MA. Hard to believe an architect as talented as Park would design such a wasteful and inhuman system. So I have finally decided to carefully remove the bars and store them for a possible future replacement and allow this remarkable but dead building to have a useful life.

 

I believe that even with the bars removed from the cells that people would not use the building. So I'm adding a one story light filled room twenty by twenty six.   

After the deck was installed I decided to create a porch to enable a Distyle in Antis Greek porch to be created.

Wanting the woodwork to match the gravitas of the Granite and Iron work I used two Longleaf pine beams 46' 5" long with a 10" X 14" cross section.

After a ceremony they were cut in half and along with two hundred twenty  year old pine lumber from a barn form the ceiling and floor of the addition. 

Thanks again for your support,

Chuck Griffin

Architect

Original Message:
Sent: 8/21/2020 6:13:00 AM
From: Edward J. Cazayoux FAIA
Subject: RE: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

I think foaming the underside of the roof has been pushed by the foam insulation industry.  In the hot humid south where I live, most of the mechanical and ductwork systems are placed in an attic area.  The best practice is not to locate these things in an unconditioned space - like the attic.  So they started foaming the underside of the roof to enclose the attic to be a semi-conditioned space.  Good design would be to incorporate all of the mechanical below the attic and let an attic be an attic.  In this situation you can combat heat gain in all three ways it is transferred - conduction, convection and radiation by using insulation on the floor of the attic, ventilating the attic space in a natural way (hot air rises) and placing a radiant barrier at the underside of the roof with shiny side facing down but allowing a vented opening to the radiant barrier at the bottom and the ridge.

------------------------------
Edward Cazayoux FAIA
Principal/Architect
EnvironMental Design
Breaux Bridge LA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-19-2020 17:25
From: Robert Sweetser
Subject: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

I have used foam spray between roof rafters in older buildings with good success. However, due to the historic and special nature of this structure I would not do that here. Allow the roof structure to continue to breathe with proper ventilation and place insulation in the attic floor. This allows future people to research the roof structure.
My two cents worth.


Original Message:
Sent: 8/18/2020 12:38:00 AM
From: Charles O. Griffin
Subject: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Fellow Architects,

I am a retired Architect who own a historic Jail building built in 1825.

After 103 years of abandonment and complete neglect (except for my 33 years ownership) I'm converting it into a residence. To make it more livable I'm adding a one story addition.

My question is about how to insulate the attic.

Most of the the slate roof has been repaired by installing new sheathing where needed, removal of the remarkable Swedish Iron nails and relaying with copper nails the Munson Maine Slate ( a product with a long lifetime ) .

Advice I'm receiving here is to install a closed cell urethane spray foam insulation on the roofs woodwork and not the floor.

While this yields an attic that can house mechanical equipment and possibly interfere with the post beetles if they still are working, I am worried that this sticky application will make future roof repairs impossible. Leaks from above would cause rot that would be very difficult to repair. And ruin the original remarkable woodwork,

Important whether seen or not.

This structure, designed by Stuart A. Park , a powerhouse architect of his day, deserves the best solution.

What should that be?

Please advise,

Charles Griffin

Architect

MA

Do not use spray foam insulation!  I used a similar product to these on an 1852 Federal townhouse in Mobile and it worked great.  It is removable if you have a roof leak and it is also breathable.  https://www.radiantguard.com/  https://eshield.net/

------------------------------
Douglas Kearley AIA
Architect
Douglas Burtu Kearley, Architect, Inc.
Mobile AL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-18-2020 00:37
From: Charles Griffin
Subject: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Fellow Architects,

I am a retired Architect who own a historic Jail building built in 1825.

After 103 years of abandonment and complete neglect (except for my 33 years ownership) I'm converting it into a residence. To make it more livable I'm adding a one story addition.

My question is about how to insulate the attic.

Most of the the slate roof has been repaired by installing new sheathing where needed, removal of the remarkable Swedish Iron nails and relaying with copper nails the Munson Maine Slate ( a product with a long lifetime ) .

Advice I'm receiving here is to install a closed cell urethane spray foam insulation on the roofs woodwork and not the floor.

While this yields an attic that can house mechanical equipment and possibly interfere with the post beetles if they still are working, I am worried that this sticky application will make future roof repairs impossible. Leaks from above would cause rot that would be very difficult to repair. And ruin the original remarkable woodwork,

Important whether seen or not.

This structure, designed by Stuart A. Park , a powerhouse architect of his day, deserves the best solution.

What should that be?

Please advise,

Charles Griffin

Architect

MA

Original Message:
Sent: 8/19/2020 5:29:00 PM
From: Douglas B. Kearley AIA
Subject: RE: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Do not use spray foam insulation!  I used a similar product to these on an 1852 Federal townhouse in Mobile and it worked great.  It is removable if you have a roof leak and it is also breathable.  https://www.radiantguard.com/  https://eshield.net/

------------------------------
Douglas Kearley AIA
Architect
Douglas Burtu Kearley, Architect, Inc.
Mobile AL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-18-2020 00:37
From: Charles Griffin
Subject: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Fellow Architects,

I am a retired Architect who own a historic Jail building built in 1825.

After 103 years of abandonment and complete neglect (except for my 33 years ownership) I'm converting it into a residence. To make it more livable I'm adding a one story addition.

My question is about how to insulate the attic.

Most of the the slate roof has been repaired by installing new sheathing where needed, removal of the remarkable Swedish Iron nails and relaying with copper nails the Munson Maine Slate ( a product with a long lifetime ) .

Advice I'm receiving here is to install a closed cell urethane spray foam insulation on the roofs woodwork and not the floor.

While this yields an attic that can house mechanical equipment and possibly interfere with the post beetles if they still are working, I am worried that this sticky application will make future roof repairs impossible. Leaks from above would cause rot that would be very difficult to repair. And ruin the original remarkable woodwork,

Important whether seen or not.

This structure, designed by Stuart A. Park , a powerhouse architect of his day, deserves the best solution.

What should that be?

Please advise,

Charles Griffin

Architect

MA

Original Message:
Sent: 8/19/2020 5:29:00 PM
From: Douglas B. Kearley AIA
Subject: RE: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Do not use spray foam insulation!  I used a similar product to these on an 1852 Federal townhouse in Mobile and it worked great.  It is removable if you have a roof leak and it is also breathable.  https://www.radiantguard.com/  https://eshield.net/

------------------------------
Douglas Kearley AIA
Architect
Douglas Burtu Kearley, Architect, Inc.
Mobile AL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-18-2020 00:37
From: Charles Griffin
Subject: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Fellow Architects,

I am a retired Architect who own a historic Jail building built in 1825.

After 103 years of abandonment and complete neglect (except for my 33 years ownership) I'm converting it into a residence. To make it more livable I'm adding a one story addition.

My question is about how to insulate the attic.

Most of the the slate roof has been repaired by installing new sheathing where needed, removal of the remarkable Swedish Iron nails and relaying with copper nails the Munson Maine Slate ( a product with a long lifetime ) .

Advice I'm receiving here is to install a closed cell urethane spray foam insulation on the roofs woodwork and not the floor.

While this yields an attic that can house mechanical equipment and possibly interfere with the post beetles if they still are working, I am worried that this sticky application will make future roof repairs impossible. Leaks from above would cause rot that would be very difficult to repair. And ruin the original remarkable woodwork,

Important whether seen or not.

This structure, designed by Stuart A. Park , a powerhouse architect of his day, deserves the best solution.

What should that be?

Please advise,

Charles Griffin

Architect

MA

Original Message:
Sent: 8/18/2020 12:38:00 AM
From: Charles O. Griffin
Subject: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Fellow Architects,

I am a retired Architect who own a historic Jail building built in 1825.

After 103 years of abandonment and complete neglect (except for my 33 years ownership) I'm converting it into a residence. To make it more livable I'm adding a one story addition.

My question is about how to insulate the attic.

Most of the the slate roof has been repaired by installing new sheathing where needed, removal of the remarkable Swedish Iron nails and relaying with copper nails the Munson Maine Slate ( a product with a long lifetime ) .

Advice I'm receiving here is to install a closed cell urethane spray foam insulation on the roofs woodwork and not the floor.

While this yields an attic that can house mechanical equipment and possibly interfere with the post beetles if they still are working, I am worried that this sticky application will make future roof repairs impossible. Leaks from above would cause rot that would be very difficult to repair. And ruin the original remarkable woodwork,

Important whether seen or not.

This structure, designed by Stuart A. Park , a powerhouse architect of his day, deserves the best solution.

What should that be?

Please advise,

Charles Griffin

Architect

MA

Original Message:
Sent: 8/19/2020 6:22:00 PM
From: Robert M. Taylor Jr. AIA
Subject: RE: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

I am not a fan of foam insulation applied to the roof rafters/deck in the attic.  If applied to the rafter area, it makes leak location essentially impossible.  You can have a considerable amount of wood damage before you are aware it has occurred.  As you are probably aware, if you seal the attic with foam insulation, your combustion air for any gas fired device in the attic will need to be piped into the unit and the unit will have to be one built for this type of installation.

 

My recommendation would be to use a more standard batt insulation on the floor of the attic.  

 

Robert M. Taylor, Jr., AIA, P.E.

Principal

CHELSEA

3200 Southwest Freeway, Suite 2121

Houston, TX  77027

www.cpdhouston.com

(713) 621-5599

 

Original Message:
Sent: 8/18/2020 12:38:00 AM
From: Charles O. Griffin
Subject: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Fellow Architects,

I am a retired Architect who own a historic Jail building built in 1825.

After 103 years of abandonment and complete neglect (except for my 33 years ownership) I'm converting it into a residence. To make it more livable I'm adding a one story addition.

My question is about how to insulate the attic.

Most of the the slate roof has been repaired by installing new sheathing where needed, removal of the remarkable Swedish Iron nails and relaying with copper nails the Munson Maine Slate ( a product with a long lifetime ) .

Advice I'm receiving here is to install a closed cell urethane spray foam insulation on the roofs woodwork and not the floor.

While this yields an attic that can house mechanical equipment and possibly interfere with the post beetles if they still are working, I am worried that this sticky application will make future roof repairs impossible. Leaks from above would cause rot that would be very difficult to repair. And ruin the original remarkable woodwork,

Important whether seen or not.

This structure, designed by Stuart A. Park , a powerhouse architect of his day, deserves the best solution.

What should that be?

Please advise,

Charles Griffin

Architect

MA

Original Message:
Sent: 8/18/2020 12:38:00 AM
From: Charles O. Griffin
Subject: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Fellow Architects,

I am a retired Architect who own a historic Jail building built in 1825.

After 103 years of abandonment and complete neglect (except for my 33 years ownership) I'm converting it into a residence. To make it more livable I'm adding a one story addition.

My question is about how to insulate the attic.

Most of the the slate roof has been repaired by installing new sheathing where needed, removal of the remarkable Swedish Iron nails and relaying with copper nails the Munson Maine Slate ( a product with a long lifetime ) .

Advice I'm receiving here is to install a closed cell urethane spray foam insulation on the roofs woodwork and not the floor.

While this yields an attic that can house mechanical equipment and possibly interfere with the post beetles if they still are working, I am worried that this sticky application will make future roof repairs impossible. Leaks from above would cause rot that would be very difficult to repair. And ruin the original remarkable woodwork,

Important whether seen or not.

This structure, designed by Stuart A. Park , a powerhouse architect of his day, deserves the best solution.

What should that be?

Please advise,

Charles Griffin

Architect

MA

Original Message:
Sent: 8/19/2020 7:02:00 PM
From: Brian J. Pape AIA
Subject: RE: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Dear Charles,

Thank you for your stewardship of 33 years for this historic and neglected jail. Yes, you can change the interior, but hopefully not the exterior beyond what is necessary. It looks like a lovely setting.

So, how to insulate the attic?

Never use closed cell or other non-venting insulation in the roof structure; it must breathe or it will rot.

You can treat for post beetles. You can install equipment that has incorporated insulation, including ductwork and piping. The space already gets solar heat gain and is a buffer from outside extremes. Insulate the floor with blown cellulose, which is also treated for infestation; add sleepers if you need more depth for insulation value. Create a floor with boards to maintain the equipment. At most, add reflective foil wrap stapled under the rafters.

You will be amazed at how good the space is and how good it insulates the space below.

Best wishes, Brian Pape, AIA

Original Message:
Sent: 8/18/2020 12:38:00 AM
From: Charles O. Griffin
Subject: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Fellow Architects,

I am a retired Architect who own a historic Jail building built in 1825.

After 103 years of abandonment and complete neglect (except for my 33 years ownership) I'm converting it into a residence. To make it more livable I'm adding a one story addition.

My question is about how to insulate the attic.

Most of the the slate roof has been repaired by installing new sheathing where needed, removal of the remarkable Swedish Iron nails and relaying with copper nails the Munson Maine Slate ( a product with a long lifetime ) .

Advice I'm receiving here is to install a closed cell urethane spray foam insulation on the roofs woodwork and not the floor.

While this yields an attic that can house mechanical equipment and possibly interfere with the post beetles if they still are working, I am worried that this sticky application will make future roof repairs impossible. Leaks from above would cause rot that would be very difficult to repair. And ruin the original remarkable woodwork,

Important whether seen or not.

This structure, designed by Stuart A. Park , a powerhouse architect of his day, deserves the best solution.

What should that be?

Please advise,

Charles Griffin

Architect

MA

Original Message:
Sent: 8/19/2020 7:02:00 PM
From: Brian J. Pape AIA
Subject: RE: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Dear Charles,

Thank you for your stewardship of 33 years for this historic and neglected jail. Yes, you can change the interior, but hopefully not the exterior beyond what is necessary. It looks like a lovely setting.

So, how to insulate the attic?

Never use closed cell or other non-venting insulation in the roof structure; it must breathe or it will rot.

You can treat for post beetles. You can install equipment that has incorporated insulation, including ductwork and piping. The space already gets solar heat gain and is a buffer from outside extremes. Insulate the floor with blown cellulose, which is also treated for infestation; add sleepers if you need more depth for insulation value. Create a floor with boards to maintain the equipment. At most, add reflective foil wrap stapled under the rafters.

You will be amazed at how good the space is and how good it insulates the space below.

Best wishes, Brian Pape, AIA

Original Message:
Sent: 8/18/2020 12:38:00 AM
From: Charles O. Griffin
Subject: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Fellow Architects,

I am a retired Architect who own a historic Jail building built in 1825.

After 103 years of abandonment and complete neglect (except for my 33 years ownership) I'm converting it into a residence. To make it more livable I'm adding a one story addition.

My question is about how to insulate the attic.

Most of the the slate roof has been repaired by installing new sheathing where needed, removal of the remarkable Swedish Iron nails and relaying with copper nails the Munson Maine Slate ( a product with a long lifetime ) .

Advice I'm receiving here is to install a closed cell urethane spray foam insulation on the roofs woodwork and not the floor.

While this yields an attic that can house mechanical equipment and possibly interfere with the post beetles if they still are working, I am worried that this sticky application will make future roof repairs impossible. Leaks from above would cause rot that would be very difficult to repair. And ruin the original remarkable woodwork,

Important whether seen or not.

This structure, designed by Stuart A. Park , a powerhouse architect of his day, deserves the best solution.

What should that be?

Please advise,

Charles Griffin

Architect

MA

Original Message:
Sent: 8/19/2020 10:54:00 PM
From: Charles O. Griffin
Subject: RE: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Thank you Brian.

Excellent advice. I also appreciate your suggestion of a specific insulation.

Original Message:
Sent: 8/19/2020 7:02:00 PM
From: Brian J. Pape AIA
Subject: RE: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Dear Charles,

Thank you for your stewardship of 33 years for this historic and neglected jail. Yes, you can change the interior, but hopefully not the exterior beyond what is necessary. It looks like a lovely setting.

So, how to insulate the attic?

Never use closed cell or other non-venting insulation in the roof structure; it must breathe or it will rot.

You can treat for post beetles. You can install equipment that has incorporated insulation, including ductwork and piping. The space already gets solar heat gain and is a buffer from outside extremes. Insulate the floor with blown cellulose, which is also treated for infestation; add sleepers if you need more depth for insulation value. Create a floor with boards to maintain the equipment. At most, add reflective foil wrap stapled under the rafters.

You will be amazed at how good the space is and how good it insulates the space below.

Best wishes, Brian Pape, AIA

Original Message:
Sent: 8/18/2020 12:38:00 AM
From: Charles O. Griffin
Subject: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Fellow Architects,

I am a retired Architect who own a historic Jail building built in 1825.

After 103 years of abandonment and complete neglect (except for my 33 years ownership) I'm converting it into a residence. To make it more livable I'm adding a one story addition.

My question is about how to insulate the attic.

Most of the the slate roof has been repaired by installing new sheathing where needed, removal of the remarkable Swedish Iron nails and relaying with copper nails the Munson Maine Slate ( a product with a long lifetime ) .

Advice I'm receiving here is to install a closed cell urethane spray foam insulation on the roofs woodwork and not the floor.

While this yields an attic that can house mechanical equipment and possibly interfere with the post beetles if they still are working, I am worried that this sticky application will make future roof repairs impossible. Leaks from above would cause rot that would be very difficult to repair. And ruin the original remarkable woodwork,

Important whether seen or not.

This structure, designed by Stuart A. Park , a powerhouse architect of his day, deserves the best solution.

What should that be?

Please advise,

Charles Griffin

Architect

MA

Original Message:
Sent: 8/21/2020 10:16:00 AM
From: Jerry L. Berggren AIA
Subject: RE: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Good Morning Charles,

 

It seems everyone is in agreement regarding the spray foam insulation.  I'd like to suggest that as you are determining just how to insulate your jail, you should consult Joseph Jenkins' book, The Slate Roof Bible.  He has some saga advice about venting requirements for slate shingled structures.  I believe his advice will help you find the right solution.

 

 

Original Message:
Sent: 8/19/2020 10:54:00 PM
From: Charles O. Griffin
Subject: RE: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Thank you Brian.

Excellent advice. I also appreciate your suggestion of a specific insulation.

Original Message:
Sent: 8/19/2020 7:02:00 PM
From: Brian J. Pape AIA
Subject: RE: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Dear Charles,

Thank you for your stewardship of 33 years for this historic and neglected jail. Yes, you can change the interior, but hopefully not the exterior beyond what is necessary. It looks like a lovely setting.

So, how to insulate the attic?

Never use closed cell or other non-venting insulation in the roof structure; it must breathe or it will rot.

You can treat for post beetles. You can install equipment that has incorporated insulation, including ductwork and piping. The space already gets solar heat gain and is a buffer from outside extremes. Insulate the floor with blown cellulose, which is also treated for infestation; add sleepers if you need more depth for insulation value. Create a floor with boards to maintain the equipment. At most, add reflective foil wrap stapled under the rafters.

You will be amazed at how good the space is and how good it insulates the space below.

Best wishes, Brian Pape, AIA

Original Message:
Sent: 8/18/2020 12:38:00 AM
From: Charles O. Griffin
Subject: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Fellow Architects,

I am a retired Architect who own a historic Jail building built in 1825.

After 103 years of abandonment and complete neglect (except for my 33 years ownership) I'm converting it into a residence. To make it more livable I'm adding a one story addition.

My question is about how to insulate the attic.

Most of the the slate roof has been repaired by installing new sheathing where needed, removal of the remarkable Swedish Iron nails and relaying with copper nails the Munson Maine Slate ( a product with a long lifetime ) .

Advice I'm receiving here is to install a closed cell urethane spray foam insulation on the roofs woodwork and not the floor.

While this yields an attic that can house mechanical equipment and possibly interfere with the post beetles if they still are working, I am worried that this sticky application will make future roof repairs impossible. Leaks from above would cause rot that would be very difficult to repair. And ruin the original remarkable woodwork,

Important whether seen or not.

This structure, designed by Stuart A. Park , a powerhouse architect of his day, deserves the best solution.

What should that be?

Please advise,

Charles Griffin

Architect

MA

Original Message:
Sent: 8/18/2020 12:38:00 AM
From: Charles O. Griffin
Subject: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Fellow Architects,

I am a retired Architect who own a historic Jail building built in 1825.

After 103 years of abandonment and complete neglect (except for my 33 years ownership) I'm converting it into a residence. To make it more livable I'm adding a one story addition.

My question is about how to insulate the attic.

Most of the the slate roof has been repaired by installing new sheathing where needed, removal of the remarkable Swedish Iron nails and relaying with copper nails the Munson Maine Slate ( a product with a long lifetime ) .

Advice I'm receiving here is to install a closed cell urethane spray foam insulation on the roofs woodwork and not the floor.

While this yields an attic that can house mechanical equipment and possibly interfere with the post beetles if they still are working, I am worried that this sticky application will make future roof repairs impossible. Leaks from above would cause rot that would be very difficult to repair. And ruin the original remarkable woodwork,

Important whether seen or not.

This structure, designed by Stuart A. Park , a powerhouse architect of his day, deserves the best solution.

What should that be?

Please advise,

Charles Griffin

Architect

MA

Original Message:
Sent: 8/19/2020 8:57:00 PM
From: Anna Maria R. Grune
Subject: RE: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Aloha Charles,

There are alot of factors to consider when applying insulation in an historic building.

For one thing, it is not recommended to use any new building material that will damage the original building material and in this case, the roof timbers. The closed cell urethane insulation will do just that. It will be permanently attached to the roof rafters and damage and discoloration of the wood may result. A rigid foam insulation would be a better alternative. 

Please refer to National Park Service and other historic building resources, Here are two references that may assist you, National Park Service Preservation Brief 3, Improving Energy in HIstoric Buildings. You may want to have an Historic Structures report completed to assist you in your remodel; National Park Service Preservation Brief 43, The Preparation and Use of Historic Structure Reports, This report will provide you with the existing conditions and is an effective part of preservation planning. 

Also, where is your building located, is it on the state or national register?

Hope this helps.

Anna Maria R. Grune, Assoc. AIA

808-783-9623

Original Message:
Sent: 8/18/2020 12:38:00 AM
From: Charles O. Griffin
Subject: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Fellow Architects,

I am a retired Architect who own a historic Jail building built in 1825.

After 103 years of abandonment and complete neglect (except for my 33 years ownership) I'm converting it into a residence. To make it more livable I'm adding a one story addition.

My question is about how to insulate the attic.

Most of the the slate roof has been repaired by installing new sheathing where needed, removal of the remarkable Swedish Iron nails and relaying with copper nails the Munson Maine Slate ( a product with a long lifetime ) .

Advice I'm receiving here is to install a closed cell urethane spray foam insulation on the roofs woodwork and not the floor.

While this yields an attic that can house mechanical equipment and possibly interfere with the post beetles if they still are working, I am worried that this sticky application will make future roof repairs impossible. Leaks from above would cause rot that would be very difficult to repair. And ruin the original remarkable woodwork,

Important whether seen or not.

This structure, designed by Stuart A. Park , a powerhouse architect of his day, deserves the best solution.

What should that be?

Please advise,

Charles Griffin

Architect

MA

Original Message:
Sent: 8/19/2020 10:52:00 PM
From: Charles O. Griffin
Subject: RE: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Excellent Advice,

Thank you Anna Maria.

I have decided not to apply any insulation to the wood.

I will look at those NPS Briefs.

In Newburyport MA.

Yes, on State National Register.

Chuck

Original Message:
Sent: 8/19/2020 8:57:00 PM
From: Anna Maria R. Grune
Subject: RE: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Aloha Charles,

There are alot of factors to consider when applying insulation in an historic building.

For one thing, it is not recommended to use any new building material that will damage the original building material and in this case, the roof timbers. The closed cell urethane insulation will do just that. It will be permanently attached to the roof rafters and damage and discoloration of the wood may result. A rigid foam insulation would be a better alternative. 

Please refer to National Park Service and other historic building resources, Here are two references that may assist you, National Park Service Preservation Brief 3, Improving Energy in HIstoric Buildings. You may want to have an Historic Structures report completed to assist you in your remodel; National Park Service Preservation Brief 43, The Preparation and Use of Historic Structure Reports, This report will provide you with the existing conditions and is an effective part of preservation planning. 

Also, where is your building located, is it on the state or national register?

Hope this helps.

Anna Maria R. Grune, Assoc. AIA

808-783-9623

Original Message:
Sent: 8/18/2020 12:38:00 AM
From: Charles O. Griffin
Subject: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Fellow Architects,

I am a retired Architect who own a historic Jail building built in 1825.

After 103 years of abandonment and complete neglect (except for my 33 years ownership) I'm converting it into a residence. To make it more livable I'm adding a one story addition.

My question is about how to insulate the attic.

Most of the the slate roof has been repaired by installing new sheathing where needed, removal of the remarkable Swedish Iron nails and relaying with copper nails the Munson Maine Slate ( a product with a long lifetime ) .

Advice I'm receiving here is to install a closed cell urethane spray foam insulation on the roofs woodwork and not the floor.

While this yields an attic that can house mechanical equipment and possibly interfere with the post beetles if they still are working, I am worried that this sticky application will make future roof repairs impossible. Leaks from above would cause rot that would be very difficult to repair. And ruin the original remarkable woodwork,

Important whether seen or not.

This structure, designed by Stuart A. Park , a powerhouse architect of his day, deserves the best solution.

What should that be?

Please advise,

Charles Griffin

Architect

MA

Charles: I own a c-1820 house in Salem, MA. It has a roof covered with Munson slate. In 1984 I had the attic insulated by placing fiberglas on the floor. The attic is ventilated, We have had no problems since. I would be very leery of insulating with foam as it may result in condensation etc.

David

------------------------------
David Hart AIA
David M. Hart Enterprises
Salem MA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-18-2020 00:37
From: Charles Griffin
Subject: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Fellow Architects,

I am a retired Architect who own a historic Jail building built in 1825.

After 103 years of abandonment and complete neglect (except for my 33 years ownership) I'm converting it into a residence. To make it more livable I'm adding a one story addition.

My question is about how to insulate the attic.

Most of the the slate roof has been repaired by installing new sheathing where needed, removal of the remarkable Swedish Iron nails and relaying with copper nails the Munson Maine Slate ( a product with a long lifetime ) .

Advice I'm receiving here is to install a closed cell urethane spray foam insulation on the roofs woodwork and not the floor.

While this yields an attic that can house mechanical equipment and possibly interfere with the post beetles if they still are working, I am worried that this sticky application will make future roof repairs impossible. Leaks from above would cause rot that would be very difficult to repair. And ruin the original remarkable woodwork,

Important whether seen or not.

This structure, designed by Stuart A. Park , a powerhouse architect of his day, deserves the best solution.

What should that be?

Please advise,

Charles Griffin

Architect

MA

I am in Michigan and own an 1851 'Brick Italianate...4000 sq ft.  I insulated the 2x6 rafters with batt, then a layer of 3/4" styrofoam board and a vapor barrier on the inside.  The floor was already isolated with rock wool.  This leaves mea tempered attic.  I furred out my brick and plaster walls with 1.5" of Styrofoam and vapor barrier and 5/8"x gyp board.  I dropped the gas bill in the coldest month from $1,000 to $375.  It has worked for 20 years.  The room is used for storage and a furnace.

------------------------------
Nelson B. Nave AIA
Owner
Nelson Breech Nave, AIA Architect
Kalamazoo MI
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-18-2020 00:37
From: Charles Griffin
Subject: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Fellow Architects,

I am a retired Architect who own a historic Jail building built in 1825.

After 103 years of abandonment and complete neglect (except for my 33 years ownership) I'm converting it into a residence. To make it more livable I'm adding a one story addition.

My question is about how to insulate the attic.

Most of the the slate roof has been repaired by installing new sheathing where needed, removal of the remarkable Swedish Iron nails and relaying with copper nails the Munson Maine Slate ( a product with a long lifetime ) .

Advice I'm receiving here is to install a closed cell urethane spray foam insulation on the roofs woodwork and not the floor.

While this yields an attic that can house mechanical equipment and possibly interfere with the post beetles if they still are working, I am worried that this sticky application will make future roof repairs impossible. Leaks from above would cause rot that would be very difficult to repair. And ruin the original remarkable woodwork,

Important whether seen or not.

This structure, designed by Stuart A. Park , a powerhouse architect of his day, deserves the best solution.

What should that be?

Please advise,

Charles Griffin

Architect

MA

Perhaps 1" glasfoam or hard polyethyleen panels pressed against the woodwork and secured with small wood batons over or between the beams. They are both materials that aren't damaged by leakages and can be removed and reused. 

VANconsult
p/a Atlanta GA

------------------------------
Jacobus Vanderharten Intl. Assoc. AIA
VANconsult
p/a Atlanta GA
www.vanderharten.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-18-2020 00:37
From: Charles Griffin
Subject: Insulating attics Historic Gaol into a residence Newburyport MA

Fellow Architects,

I am a retired Architect who own a historic Jail building built in 1825.

After 103 years of abandonment and complete neglect (except for my 33 years ownership) I'm converting it into a residence. To make it more livable I'm adding a one story addition.

My question is about how to insulate the attic.

Most of the the slate roof has been repaired by installing new sheathing where needed, removal of the remarkable Swedish Iron nails and relaying with copper nails the Munson Maine Slate ( a product with a long lifetime ) .

Advice I'm receiving here is to install a closed cell urethane spray foam insulation on the roofs woodwork and not the floor.

While this yields an attic that can house mechanical equipment and possibly interfere with the post beetles if they still are working, I am worried that this sticky application will make future roof repairs impossible. Leaks from above would cause rot that would be very difficult to repair. And ruin the original remarkable woodwork,

Important whether seen or not.

This structure, designed by Stuart A. Park , a powerhouse architect of his day, deserves the best solution.

What should that be?

Please advise,

Charles Griffin

Architect

MA