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The AIA Corporate Architects and Facility Management (CAFM) Knowledge Community consist of architects working within and for businesses and corporations. Our mission is to share expertise in the strategic, tactical, and operational activities of real property and facilities management in order to deliver value to the owners we represent. 

  • 1.  Architect Project Managers working with A/E Team of Record

    Posted 02-06-2013 10:53 AM
    Does anyone have any history of problems working with the A/E Team of Record in relation to the Owner's Project Manager making decisions on the job-site that are minor in nature but that keep the project moving and in budget?  What the legal limitations might be?  How did you handle objections or threats related to pulling their stamp?  What is a reasonable level of involvement and what might not be?  Other such issues that make what should be a colaborative relationship and confrontational one? 



  • 2.  RE:Architect Project Managers working with A/E Team of Record

    Posted 02-07-2013 12:44 PM
    We have been the A/E Team of Record frequently, and haven't run into this type of situation. Discussions frequently take place at job meetings and outside them, but we always work hard to maintain pre-established communication procedures and contract terms. Trust, teamwork and compitence brings success. But I'm confused...how do owner decisions that are minor in nature result in an implication of "stamp removal"? It seems like there is a bigger issues at hand.....  

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    Stephen Rich AIA
    President / CEO
    WBRC Architects Engineers
    Bangor ME
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  • 3.  RE:Architect Project Managers working with A/E Team of Record

    Posted 02-07-2013 02:28 PM


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    John La Porte AIA
    J. LaPorte and Associates PC
    Grand Rapids MI
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    I have experienced much the same concern with many strong facilities managers.  I have graced many Pre-Construction meetings with the comments that all questions should be address by our office, and that  we are just a telephone call away.  Your facility managers will actually appreciate, not being the "first call".  

    Many questions are interpretation of documents, and clarifications, and on occasions even cleaning up errors. Items that are better served without owner involvement. If the project is large enough, an on-site representative from your office is the  absolute best.  Anything of a sweeping nature puts all parties in a meeting.

    This problem will not go away until the one day the facility manager gives an incorrect answer - then he too realize why they hired you.  Try to  explain to the facilities manager that your office "answer questions" relative to the drawings/problems/implementation that arise.  The facility manager should answer questions relative to how the project interfaces with the facility, changing schedule, facility access, and that  most  of  these questions  should be answered at a regularly scheduled construction meeting. 





  • 4.  RE:Architect Project Managers working with A/E Team of Record

    Posted 02-08-2013 09:39 AM

    Collaboration requires both parties to consider the others concerns whether they be professional responsibility or financial.  When working with another firm it is good to acquire a clear definition of each firm's scope of responsibility, follow the necessary protocol to obtain their approval when it fits within their scope.  This collegiality will benefit you in the long run.  Clients like it when architect's can get along.  Puling someone's stamp (if that is really possible) would best be done by the client not another architect.

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    Paul Tiajoloff AIA
    Paul K. Tiajoloff, Architect, LLC
    Boonton NJ
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  • 5.  RE:Architect Project Managers working with A/E Team of Record

    Posted 02-11-2013 08:15 AM
    Stephen:

    As an architect and an "owner" I walk the thin line between letting the A/E team do their job doing what I need to do to get things done on time and in budget.  I also have another architect as a PM on my staff that must also walk the thin line.  Fortunately we have good relationships with our A/E teams and they do not mind us making some decisions "on the spot" as long as we keep them informed.  However, me and my team need to let the A/E team be the responsible "of record" entity - we, as the owner, do not wish to "assume" the responsibility and LIABILITY of taking too much from our hired team.  I do not believe that it is possible to "pull your stamp" once you have sealed the drawings.  Collaboration must be tantamount in good professional relationships and all parties must be willing to accept give-and-take from time-to-time to produce a successful project - that is the ultimate goal anyway.

    Good luck.

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    Donald Hughes, AIA, CCCA
    Director of Facilities
    Union County Public Schools
    Monroe NC
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  • 6.  RE:Architect Project Managers working with A/E Team of Record

    Posted 02-11-2013 10:22 AM
    Well - that suggests many issues.  As with any service, a defined scope is critical if you wish to control your contribution to the relationship and if you wish to keep the respective parties where they really need to be.  In addition, it becomes very easy in the course of a working relationship to allow informality to creep in.  A good relationship requires not only the scope definition but the discipline to adhere to your scope and the ability to defer to others and permit them to do likewise.

    In general there are no legal "limits" but the best practice is to keep the Architect of Record in the loop on all decisions (from your description it sounds like the Owner's rep is issuing what the AIA documents would call an "Order for Minor Change in the Work") so that there is one repository of any and all modifications to the design information.  Respect would also suggest that the Owner's rep should issue those things only after at least conferring in some manner with the Architect of Record.  We all have cell phones in our pockets anymore - that should not be a difficult undertaking (making certain of course to follow up with appropriate documentation).

    That all said, I hear the "pulling one's seal" debate often.  Understand that most municipalities will not permit that.  Once you submit the documents they become public record, and under the law in most states they can not be, for lack of a better term, "retrieved".  If you feel that the work is deviating from the approved documents in a manner that compromises the integrity of the work (something that probably should not be exercised exclusively for aesthetic reasons) then you probably do have an obligation to approach the building official with that information.  How to address it is the building official's decision - not the Architect's. 

    Understand that you have some obligation to the general public in terms of code compliance and the safety for users of the ultimate work (not during the construction absent some extraordinary circumstances).  What your seal attests to is the documents are your professional work product - i.e.; that they were prepared by you or under your direct supervision, and they reflect your professional judgment.  That does not translate into a representation regarding the construction - if the construction proceeds in some manner contrary to the documents, and you know about it, you may have an obligation to alert the building official, but "pulling your seal" is likely not an option.  The documents are still your professional work product and they still represent your professional judgment regarding the design.  I certainly would not recommend threatening to do so (as you may well find you can't such that any threat is an empty threat anyway), and if you find yourself in a position where you think you might like to do so then you probably need to seek qualified legal assistance from an Attorney knowledgable in the law in your particular state.



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    Frederick Butters FAIA, Esq.
    Attorney
    AIA Detroit
    Southfield MI
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