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#notanintern

  • 1.  #notanintern

    Posted 02-25-2014 07:00 PM
    This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Young Architects Forum and National Associates Committee .
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    At their 2014 Annual Meeting, the NAC came to a consensus to remove the use of the term "intern" from the profession. In a more inclusive A[we]A what title would you like to see used for Associate AIA members?


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    J. Michael Atkinson Assoc. AIA
    designer | project manager
    aj architects
    Charleston SC
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  • 2.  RE:#notanintern

    Posted 02-26-2014 05:40 PM
    The problem with the term "intern" is that there is no differentiation between a student and a graduate of a 4+ year specialized education.

    I think the term "intern" is appropriate for a student who is indeed completing an internship. An architect-in-training who has obtained a bachelor's or greater degree in the field of architecture should not be termed equally to students.

    Some alternatives:

    "Apprentice Architect" (my personal preference)
    "Architectural Apprentice" (to appease those who don't want non-architects to have the word "architect" explicitly in their title)
    "Novice Architect"
    "Architectural Novice"
    "Architect-in-Training" (terminology that is widely recognized by the engineering community)
    "Adjunct Architect" (terminology that is widely recognized by the educational community)

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    Christopher Clark Assoc. AIA
    Architectural Intern
    Schaefer Johnson Cox Frey Architecture, Inc.
    Wichita KS
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  • 3.  RE:#notanintern

    Posted 02-26-2014 05:46 PM
    This was a big topic of the 2012 NCARB Intern Think Tank, which I had the privilege to be a part of.  One of the charges was to see if there was interest in a "pre-licensure" credential.  No one seemed to think that was necessary, but the consensus was definitely to get rid of the term "intern."  A lot of people were in favor of substituting "intern" with the word "candidate."  Food for thought.  You can find more information about the 2012, as well as the 2013, NCARB Intern Think Tanks here:  http://www.ncarb.org/Experience-Through-Internships/Intern-Think-Tank/2012InternThinkTank.aspx

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    Katie Ramsbottom Assoc. AIA
    DLR Group
    Omaha NE
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  • 4.  RE:#notanintern

    Posted 02-27-2014 09:55 AM
    As a somewhat recently licensed architect, I feel I can comment on this issue.  I never did like the term Intern Architect as it somehow implied we didn't know what we were doing or that we weren't paid. The pay question was asked of me on several occasions.

    I have always been a fan of either Junior Architect or Architect in Training.  Both these titles imply that you are working towards something, which would be your licensure. They are also titles that accurately reflect your position in an architecture firm.

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    Drew Weigl AIA, LEED AP BD+C
    Architect
    Cheatham, Fletcher, Scott Architects
    Augusta GA
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  • 5.  RE:#notanintern

    Posted 02-27-2014 11:13 AM

    In Puerto Rico they call us, "intern" architects, AIT or Architects in Training. I believe that sounds professional. Even Junior Architect sounds , ok.
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    Natalia Cebollero Assoc. AIA
    Intern Architect
    Charlan Brock & Associates
    Eustis FL
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  • 6.  RE:#notanintern

    Posted 02-28-2014 10:52 AM
    Why not "Graduate Architect"?

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    F. Michael Ayles AIA
    Principal
    Antinozzi Associates, PC
    Bridgeport CT
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  • 7.  RE:#notanintern

    Posted 03-11-2014 10:18 AM
    A couple friends (and fellow KU graduates) of mine wrote this article in the fall, which addresses the same sorts of ideas, specific to using the term "Architect" and what it really means (and if it's really necessary).

    While I don't agree with all of their thoughts, I thought it was germane to this discussion and might bring some new opinions. 

    Thoughts? 

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    Brandon Tobias AIA
    Project Architect
    General Services Administration
    Philadelphia PA
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  • 8.  RE:#notanintern

    Posted 03-12-2014 05:26 PM
    Another take on #notanintern, I just wrote an article for the new NCARB blog advocating for Architect in Training.

    http://blog.ncarb.org/2014/March/InternDebate.aspx

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    Jared Banks AIA
    Newton MA
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  • 9.  RE: #notanintern

    Posted 06-17-2014 05:59 PM
    I just received notice of and took the AIA's Intern Title Survey (http://www.aia.org/careerstages/resources/AIAB104048). I was very surprised that, while there were 5 or 6 questions asking about which title evoked the most positive feelings about the person holding the title in the general public, in clients, in colleagues, in themselves, etc.--there was not a single question asking about which title best preserves the public health, safety and welfare through unambiguous communication to the general public of the qualifications of the title-holder; there was not a single question about which title best preserves and promotes the value of the architectural profession (while not necessarily in the interest of everyone, this should surely be an interest of the AIA); and there was no place for open comments in the survey either. All of this made the survey seem to be a push poll designed to get a specific outcome rather than to discern the true opinions of AIA members. Did anyone have a similar impression of the survey?

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    Sean Catherall AIA
    Architect
    Salt Lake City UT
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  • 10.  RE: #notanintern

    Posted 06-18-2014 05:22 PM
    The survey choices are the compilation of thousands of posts on these and other forums as well as discussions by the AIA and affiliated groups. The purpose is, I'm sure, to get a specific outcome (based on the opinions already given). The only purpose of further open discussion would be to add more choices to that survey--whereas it seems they already covered every base.

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    Christopher Clark Assoc. AIA
    Architectural Intern
    Schaefer Johnson Cox Frey Architecture, Inc.
    Wichita KS
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  • 11.  RE: #notanintern

    Posted 06-18-2014 05:49 PM
    That's a good point, Sean.  It also did not ask if the term "intern" was acceptable or not.  Instead, the survey jumped straight to what's the best replacement.  Perhaps previous surveys already addressed this.  I personally don't mind the term "intern" for those pursuing licensure.   Some of the other terms are intriguing, but come with their own challenges.

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    Stephanie Silkwood AIA
    Architect
    RMW Architecture & Interiors
    San Jose CA
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  • 12.  RE: #notanintern

    Posted 06-18-2014 06:41 PM
    I agree with Mr. Catherall.... had there been a comment section at the end of the survey, I may have added a comment to the effect of "Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines the word 'intern' as 'a student or recent graduate who works for a period of time at a job in order to get experience.' and as 'an advanced student or graduate usually in a professional field (as medicine or teaching) gaining supervised practical experience (as in a hospital or classroom)'.  Given those definitions, isn't the term 'intern' a completely appropriate term to use when describing a recently graduated employee who is gaining experience and working towards licensure?  I can't see how a sense of shame or embarrassment would accompany the use of this word as a part of one's title.  We are what we are."

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    David Bell AIA
    PJHM Architects, Inc.
    Laguna Hills CA
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  • 13.  RE: #notanintern

    Posted 06-18-2014 07:03 PM
    I was happy to see that the AIA is considering removing the "intern" moniker -- always sounded like an unpaid, inexperienced position even though that is not its official meaning. I agree that the survey was rather leading and could have benefited from a general comments section at the least.

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    Therese Kelly AIA
    Principal
    Therese Kelly Architecture & Urban Design
    Santa Monica CA
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  • 14.  RE: #notanintern

    Posted 06-19-2014 09:33 AM
    Seat et al,

    Just completed the survey and had similar impressions myself.  I can't say I'm a huge proponent of some of what I've seen lately - seemingly trying to make it "easier and faster" to obtain licensure - and to what end? Because there aren't enough architects becoming licensed? Why is it so bad to be called an intern?

    A better solution to this might be to make the AREs more affordable, incentivizing licensure (i.e. raises, bonuses, AIA benefits, etc.), or even limiting what an "intern, AIT, designer, etc." is allowed to do.  Lowering the bar serves to only cheapen the profession and, ultimately be detrimental to ensuring the health, safety, and welfare of building occupants. There is a reason that being an architect is regulated - it comes with a great amount of responsibility for protecting the public good and those that have earned the title understand that. 

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    Robert Tobias AIA
    Project Architect
    General Services Administration
    Philadelphia PA
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  • 15.  RE: #notanintern

    Posted 06-19-2014 05:24 PM
    You folks do realize that "Intern" and "Intern Architect" are choices for every question in the survey. If the system isn't broken and doesn't need fixing, it appears you should select one of those as your preference.

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    Christopher Clark Assoc. AIA
    Architectural Intern
    Schaefer Johnson Cox Frey Architecture, Inc.
    Wichita KS
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  • 16.  RE: #notanintern

    Posted 06-19-2014 06:04 PM
    The choices provided in the survey blurs two very different ways you might refer to yourself.
    The two are a "Professional Title" and/or a "Office Title or Project Role" that describes your role in the office or on a project.

    I am an Architect, but I am also a Project Manager.

    I don't know about other states, we have a "Title Act" that was set up to protect the misuse of the title "Architect".
    In essence, it is the State (Licensing Authority) that bestows the title "Architect" on you, and has the ability to resend said "Title".

    For this discussion I would suggest that the focus be narrowed to the "Office Title or Project Role" that one has in the office.  Leave the "Professional Title" up to the Licensing Authority.

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    Glenn McGuyre, AIA
    Project Manager
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  • 17.  RE: #notanintern

    Posted 06-20-2014 11:24 AM
    Sean,

    I also took that survey and I think the talk about the title we are giving those who are in the process of getting licensed is overshadowing the recent steps that NCARB is trying to push which would allow college graduates the ability to be 'licensed at graduation':  http://blog.ncarb.org/2014/June/Licensure-Upon-Graduation.aspx

    I'm all for advocating for the future of the profession but there was no way graduates are ready for real-world applications of the profession. Too much talk about making the test easier for those who just graduated but I believe that there needs to be that time (2-4 years) of real world apprenticeship that must happen so acclimate yourself in the real world.

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    Wayne Broadfield AIA
    Associate
    Mushinsky Voelzke Associates / MV+A
    Washington DC

    2014-2015 President-Elect AIA Potomac Valley Chapter
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  • 18.  RE: #notanintern

    Posted 06-23-2014 05:47 PM
    Sean makes an important point about the need for unambiguous communication to the general public. I wonder what level of advocacy the AIA is proposing once a name is decided on.  Most people don't understand the difference between a licensed architect and a "home designer".

    I am currently in a heated debate with a buddy of mine on "licensure upon graduation".  I firmly believe that you absolutely should not be licensed right out of the gate.  Still early in my career, I am uncomfortable with certain aspects of the profession.  There are things I just flat out don't know or don't have enough experience with to be comfortable. There are aspects and nuance that you can only learn while working under someone in a apprenticeship type relationship.  Contract negotiation, code interpretation, proposal writing, etc.   The list goes on and on.

    I could not imagine the professional responsibility thrust upon someone fresh out of school with no experience trying to figure out all the complex issues that are in our profession while trying to maintain that they are indeed "licensed professionals". At the end of day, I think we would look foolish as a profession.

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    Drew Weigl AIA
    Architect
    Cheatham, Fletcher, Scott AIA, P.C.
    Augusta GA

    2014 President-Elect AIA Augusta Chapter
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  • 19.  RE: #notanintern

    Posted 06-24-2014 05:44 PM
    A few points thanks to some intra-office discussions:

    Let's start worrying about the profession and not the professional. So now the universities will switch over to where it takes 7, 8, 9 (?) years to get your degree but you will be "ready to test" for your license. So we can not have interns actually getting paid to finish their education through internship, rather they should be pumping more money into the universities all the while racking up student loan debt only to get out and be told "you need more experience". Good luck paying off the debt kids. And you can bet NCARB will be getting a piece of the action by cashing in and at the same time making the profession stronger by diluting it.

    The new grads will at least have a sense of entitlement and won't have to suffer the indignity of being called the "I-word". And without a "soul-crushing" internship the newly licensed graduates can and will (yikes) go into practice for themselves (as the lawyers and insurance companies are glazed over with dollar signs - "do it do it - the greater your risk the greater our reward") because it is that easy. It's not like our industry doesn't already have an issue with demeaning our real value. What we really need to do is flood the market with inexperienced "architects" who will do the job for just enough to make their crippling student loan payments.

    Why is it a problem if the industry shrinks? It is a natural reset due to the Boomers retiring which should be seen as a good thing! A forest fire destroys and sets the stage for new growth.


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    Matt Murphy AIA
    Associate, AIA, WRID, LEED AP BD +C


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  • 20.  RE: #notanintern

    Posted 06-21-2014 08:53 PM
    Arrgh... This is another example of 'touchy-feelyism' in our modern world, which drives me nuts. 

    Here's how it worked in the old days, kids:

    You started out as a Draftsperson (uphill in the snow - both ways).

    You moved on to being a Job Captain.  (Now 'Project Manger', which is fine, I guess).

    Sometimes, you'd be declared a 'Designer' (whoa... you're an 'Artiste', now!).

    You passed the ARE and became... wait for it... An Architect.

    Until you're licensed, you are in no way shape or form an 'Architect'.  Period.

    You want to be an Architect?  Fine... Do what the rest of us did.  Slog it out in the profession for the years it takes to finish your apprenticeship (or 'internship'... don't like that term much, either), take the exams, and proudly hang that License Certificate on your wall.  Simple.  Now you can tell all your nattering relatives, "I did it!  I'm an Architect!"

    Before I was licensed, I was a Draftsman, then a 'Designer'.  During that period, I had ZERO legal responsibilities at any firm I worked at.  I was just a cog in the wheel. 

    I realize everyone is impatient to have some important-sounding appellation, but the fact of the matter is that you are NOT an Architect until you are licensed as such, and there should be no wiggle room in the title.

    When the state grants you a license, they are imparting to you an immense responsibility.  You won't fully realize it's import until you're wearing it yourself.  I used to think that wasn't so, but after experiencing it, I realized it was true.  Becoming licensed changed my life... In ways both good and bad.  That's how life is. 

    Just my curmudgeonly two-cents.

    Get out there and earn it.  You'll feel great once you have.  You'll be an Architect soon enough.  It took me twenty years (I didn't go to college... Did it by pure apprenticeship), so if you can do it in eight or ten, consider yourself an all-star, and tell your aunt Millie how awesome you are.

    Read the practice act for your jurisdiction.  Look at what it says.  It's no joke.  You are the professional equivalent of a Doctor (who may save your life), or an Attorney (who may keep you out of prison).  You are legally and morally responsible for safeguarding the health, safety and welfare of the public you serve.  You are also subject to considerable penalty for failure in that responsibility.  There's a reason that law has draconian penalties for unlicensed individuals using the term Architect.  It's a public pronouncement of full competence.  I, for one, am tired of seeing the constant push to cheapen it.

    Don't get me started on IT people trying to appropriate it.... You think this post was in-your-face?  You aint seen nothin' yet.

    I'll be constructive, okay?  How do the Carpenter's or Mason's Unions divide up the levels?  Maybe we should use their scheme.  They're probably the closest analogs to our profession.

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    David M. Sanders, Architect
    Orange County, CA
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