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  Architecture - Worst Degree to...
April 26, 2012 1:45 PMMr. Allen E N...
  RE:Architecture - Worst Degree...
April 27, 2012 9:52 AMDebra Coleman...
  RE:Architecture - Worst Degree...
April 30, 2012 6:45 AMEric Rawlings...
  RE:Architecture - Worst Degree...
April 27, 2012 10:08 AMJeffrey Kamm,...
  RE:Architecture - Worst Degree...
April 30, 2012 5:42 AMEric Rawlings...
  RE:Architecture - Worst Degree...
May 01, 2012 11:16 AMMary Holley, AIA
  RE:Architecture - Worst Degree...
April 27, 2012 10:38 AMEdward Shanno...
  RE:Architecture - Worst Degree...
April 27, 2012 12:01 PMMr. Ken Brogn...
  RE:Architecture - Worst Degree...
April 27, 2012 12:31 PMMary Holley, AIA
  RE:Architecture - Worst Degree...
April 27, 2012 1:07 PMRicardo Ramos...
  RE:Architecture - Worst Degree...
April 27, 2012 1:32 PMRichard Barro...
  RE:Architecture - Worst Degree...
April 27, 2012 2:54 PMMr. Theodore ...
 

1.
Architecture - Worst Degree to Have?
From: Mr. Allen E Neyman, AIA
To: Housing Knowledge Community
Posted: April 26, 2012 1:45 PM
Subject: Architecture - Worst Degree to Have?
Message:

A popular TV show has labelled "Architecture" among the 5 most useless degrees

[Forward to 6:20 in this Today Show segment... 

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/47157200/ns/today-today_news/t/sparks-fly-when-rosie-joins-todays-professionals/  ]

Now how do you feel? Is that a validation or  confimration of your recent biz experience? Or are they wrong and you are waiting for the AIA to respond to a critique shared with 10 million viewers? Is there a response?


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Allen Neyman AIA
Principal
StovallSmithNeyman and Associates Architects
Germantown MD
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2.
RE:Architecture - Worst Degree to Have?
From: Debra Coleman, AIA
To: Housing Knowledge Community
Posted: April 27, 2012 9:52 AM
Subject: RE:Architecture - Worst Degree to Have?
Message:
I could not find the article at that link, but did find it here:
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20120425/georgetown-study-on-most-useless-degrees-120425/

Maybe these facts will confirm the need for AIA assistance in helping us market the profession better and the need for architects to be more open to providing service to all construction projects and not just the higher end clients.  We should be able to justify our fees alone by right-sizing buildings (potentially saving clients construction costs that exceed our fees) and bring our profession to a level of prevalence in the building industry that at least equals realtors involvement. If the building market is such that the public accepts existing building sales transaction fee of 6-7% for a realtor, then a goal should be that the public accepts a new building design fee (or existing building renovation fee) of similar percentage for EVERY building that is constructed. We can adapt our services to the budget and client needs. We need to better communicate that our value as architects is at least equal, if not greater, than that of  a realtor in terms of obtaining a delightful building in which to live and work.
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Debra Rucker Coleman, AIA
Sun Plans Inc., Mobile, AL
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3.
RE:Architecture - Worst Degree to Have?
From: Eric Rawlings, AIA
To: Housing Knowledge Community
Posted: April 30, 2012 6:45 AM
Subject: RE:Architecture - Worst Degree to Have?
Message:
The fundamental problem is simple. Our society doesn't recognize design as something that's valuable, especially when it comes to buildings. Look at the evidence. How many new houses are mass produced from a single design? Does this sound like a society that cares about design? Our appraisal system has no way of recognizing what people are willing to pay for a specific Builder or Designer's product. Appraisers value houses by averaging the sales of a Community of Competitors, thus everyone building the same size house in the same area is theoretically getting the same appraisal. Your bank loan is based on this appraisal and so is your potential buyer's loan. All you have to do is separate the cost of the Lot from the cost of the House and we could compare our products to our products in any Location without letting our lousy competitors leach off our success. It's really simple. There is no way to assign significantly more value or recognize that one house may be of a considerably higher quality than the others in the same area. This is why you never build the most expensive house on the block. It's asinine! It makes ZERO sense! This is the number one reason sustainability suffers.

We don't design spec houses very often, so how do we know what our designs are worth at market? Only a spec house can sell as a NEW item at market, thus they receive the highest value per sf. When one of our used, Architectural houses finally sells at market, they sell at a lower price per sf than the new spec houses in the area. This makes our houses look grossly over priced and not very valuable per sf. People believe value is part of beauty and this is why they pay thousands for an ugly purse by a famous designer. We can't prove our designs matter unless more of us can get Architectural spec houses out to market. I've had realtors pass my name to builders based on the fact that they see my spec houses selling for more than the competition on the MLS site. It's all about sales in America, so we need some of our buildings to sell right away, not 20 years later.

The solution is simple, but the will is weak. Our will as a profession and the will of our politicians on all sides is not encouraging. We need Appraisal Reform and we need Architects designing spec houses if we want design to matter to our capitalist society. All we got is design, so we must make it matter! There is a reason why the next BMW is going to automatically be more valuable than the next Honda. This kind of inherent brand value can only be achieved if sales can be tracked per the individual companies and not just the average job of a Community of Competitors. Imagine if the next 4 door Ford, BMW, Honda, and Porche were all averaged out and the value of their next car lines for 2013 was based on the average sales. How long would Porche and BMW last in a market where their products are being valued the same as Ford and Honda? This is exactly why we have a hard time flourishing in the housing sector. It's rigged to penalize the successful while rewarding the weak.


 
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Eric Rawlings AIA
Owner
Rawlings Design, Inc.
Decatur GA
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4.
RE:Architecture - Worst Degree to Have?
From: Jeffrey Kamm, AIA
To: Housing Knowledge Community
Posted: April 27, 2012 10:08 AM
Subject: RE:Architecture - Worst Degree to Have?
Message:
I would interpert that as a Fine Arts Archtiecture degree not a professional degree, a B.A. or M.A. in architecture rather than a B.Arch  or M.Arch.; to this I would agree with the comments.  I don't thisnk the comments have anything to do with me as a architect.  The issue here is is the AIA doing anything, anything at all, to educate the public on the difference?  Isn't that one of the purposes of the AIA?  The "Residential Designers" have been better on organizing on this front than the AIA. They have created the "professional home Designer and the Certified home designer, basically saying that an Architect and a professional degree are inappropriate for the design of a home.

In my opinion, they are doing a better job appealing to the general public than the AIA. This is the kind of thing that is out there when an individual searches for home design; where is the AIA?

http://architecture.about.com/cs/careers/f/homedesigner.htm

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Jeffrey Kamm AIA
Owner
Wadsworth Kamm Architects
Glastonbury CT
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5.
RE:Architecture - Worst Degree to Have?
From: Eric Rawlings, AIA
To: Housing Knowledge Community
Posted: April 30, 2012 5:42 AM
Subject: RE:Architecture - Worst Degree to Have?
Message:
Our biggest problem is that we expect home owners and home builders to pay the same fees for the same services we offer our commercial clients. Residential Designers own most of the potential custom housing clientele because they only provide the drawings that are absolutely needed, thus they bring their fees down below ours. I've learned to mould my services appropriately around my clients means/ needs and I've opened myself up to a huge market most Architects ignore. I've run most of the designers out of my area by playing their game better. There is a huge need for sophistication and professionalism in regular people housing, but we're really going about this all wrong. If 90% of America can't afford your fees, then how do you get paid what you're worth? You have to work less! Find out what the building official needs and provide only what's necessary. When it comes to houses, we draw way too much. It's as if we have a mental block when it comes to professionalism. Why can't you be professional and offer only the necessary services so someone can afford you?

Most of us turn our noses up to spec houses, yet they represent the most common method of project delivery of ALL Architecture in America. Under normal circumstances, spec houses grossly outnumber all construction put together and we do little to none of it. The majority of our built environment is made up of copies of amateurish designs. I have several builders on board with the concept of building unique, Architectural spec houses. You don't have to repeat lousy boxy floor plans to sell a house at spec. There is a market out there that wants a brand new house now, but doesn't want cookie cutter. We need to embrace the delivery method, not resist it. Only bad products will be offered if we all turn our noses up. If only bad exists and we're not doing anything about it, then what else should the general public think of us?

I'm tired of hearing all the whining about realtors. They made themselves matter and we have not. They bring the builders lots that aren't up for sale yet, they bring builders and Architects business connections, they bring the clients that buy the houses and fill the builder's pockets with money, and they know all the gossip that gives builders an edge over their competitors. I've had several agents provide jobs for me and connect me to builders who bring me work. Ask yourself what we're providing? Complaints about people who only make about $50K a year not wanting to pay $25K for a set of house plans that a designer will provide for a fraction of the price?

We need to learn how to insert ourselves into everyday people's lives and not expect them to worship us from afar. Designing a great public building excites people for the 10 minutes they're there, but a home is where people's real memories are. This is their personal space. People really fall in love with these spaces, no matter how awful. We're letting people fall in love with awful spaces and we wonder why their taste is so tacky.



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Eric Rawlings AIA
Owner
Rawlings Design, Inc.
Decatur GA
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6.
RE:Architecture - Worst Degree to Have?
From: Mary Holley, AIA
To: Housing Knowledge Community
Posted: May 01, 2012 11:16 AM
Subject: RE:Architecture - Worst Degree to Have?
Message:
First of all, I realize that in today's media that one graphic with the word "architecture" is damaging, but I don't think that fighting that graphic or with Rosie O'Donnell for that matter, is the answer.  This is my take on it:

This segment lasted less than two minutes and was dominated by Rosie O'Donnell.  They tried to have a discussion during which it was stated "there are no useless degrees".  Star Jones wisely said "you make your own niche".  Just when the discussion could have gotten interesting they cut to Lindsay Lohan.  So really?  Are we going to get in a huff because in the 1:40  Rosie O'Donnel was the only panelist who thought there was such a thing as a "useless major?" 

Rather than condemning the Today Show, or the AIA perhaps we should celebrate that fact that those of us who have persevered in architecture do it for one reason: for the most part, we LOVE it.  It certainly has never been easy, either to get the degree or to find work, but we do it anyway.  So I say celebrate those of us who persue a "useless" degree--we're about our life's passion whether it be architecture, fine art, drama, or philosphy.  Society needs us, whether it knows it or not.  Why not let everyone know that we do this because it is our calling if you will.  It is a slight shift in the public's perception, but if we show the public our enthusiasm and love for our profession that could make architects as a whole more sympathetic and approachable.  People love underdogs who stick to their passions, and by golly, we seem to be the under dogs now.
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Mary Holley AIA
President
ma2 architects
Basalt CO
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7.
RE:Architecture - Worst Degree to Have?
From: Edward Shannon, AIA
To: Housing Knowledge Community
Posted: April 27, 2012 10:38 AM
Subject: RE:Architecture - Worst Degree to Have?
Message:
We are having this same discssion on the Small Projects forum.  Please see my response and others there. 

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Edward Shannon
Waterloo IA
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8.
RE:Architecture - Worst Degree to Have?
From: Mr. Ken Brogno, AIA
To: Housing Knowledge Community
Posted: April 27, 2012 12:01 PM
Subject: RE:Architecture - Worst Degree to Have?
Message:
I will need to look at the video sometime later, but if this is an opinion from Rosie O'Donnell, is it really necessary to respond?

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Ken Brogno AIA
Architect AIA LEED AP
San Francisco CA
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9.
RE:Architecture - Worst Degree to Have?
From: Mary Holley, AIA
To: Housing Knowledge Community
Posted: April 27, 2012 12:31 PM
Subject: RE:Architecture - Worst Degree to Have?
Message:
It's a weird segment, they attempt to discuss if there are "useless" majors, get cut off repeatedly by Rosie O'Donnell, put a graphic up on the screen, then cut to Lindsay Lohan.  My take is that if you take employment advice from Rosie O'Donnell, you're an idiot. 


-------------------------------------------
Mary Holley AIA
President
ma2 architects
Basalt CO
-------------------------------------------






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10.
RE:Architecture - Worst Degree to Have?
From: Ricardo Ramos, Assoc. AIA, LEED® AP, CSI
To: Housing Knowledge Community
Posted: April 27, 2012 1:07 PM
Subject: RE:Architecture - Worst Degree to Have?
Message:

When you have Matt Lauer and Rosie O'Donnell on a panel you know this is just a bunch of baloney. I like how comercial/graphic arts were lumped in at #4, yet all of the graphics for that show were done by a graphic designer including the commercials in between. Star Jones hit the nail on the head, a degree is just training for a niche market, heck even a lawyer can't find employment these days.
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Ricardo Ramos LEED® AP, CSI
Alpha Analysis, Inc.
Arcadia CA
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11.
RE:Architecture - Worst Degree to Have?
From: Richard Barron, AIA
To: Housing Knowledge Community
Posted: April 27, 2012 1:32 PM
Subject: RE:Architecture - Worst Degree to Have?
Message:


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Richard Barron AIA
Jackson MS
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Hey guys - It's Rosie.  It's MSNBC.  It's Matt.  What do you expect?




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12.
RE:Architecture - Worst Degree to Have?
From: Mr. Theodore Liebman, FAIA
To: Housing Knowledge Community
Posted: April 27, 2012 2:54 PM
Subject: RE:Architecture - Worst Degree to Have?
Message:
An architecture degree creates diverse opportunities to enjoy a fulfilling and exciting life. 

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Theodore Liebman FAIA
Principal
Perkins Eastman
New York NY
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