Historic Resources Committee

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The mission of the Historic Resources Committee (HRC) is to identify, understand, and preserve architectural heritage, both nationally and internationally. HRC is engaged in promoting the role of the historic architect within the profession through the development of information and knowledge among members, allied professional organizations, and the public.

  • 1.  Experience with paint delamination?

    Posted 01-28-2016 04:09 PM

    We have some issues with paint delamination in an historic building circa 1904.

    We know it is not distemper paint or an issue of latex paint over enamel paint.

    It occurs in a variety of areas an conditions, but the failure seems to mainly express itself at the original plaster and paint juncture/layer.

    I have read some possibility about the plaster size causing failure.

     

     

    Michael Bjornberg FAIA
    Project Management

    HGA   Architects and Engineers
    420 North 5th Street, Suite 100, Minneapolis, MN 55401
    Direct 612.758.4385  |  Fax 612.758.9385

    Mobile 612.859.2762
    MBjornberg@hga.com 


    Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

     

    2024 HRC Taliesin West


  • 2.  RE: Experience with paint delamination?

    Posted 01-29-2016 05:28 PM

    Michael,

    Check out: Water in Buildings: Arch Guide to Moisture and Mold by William Rose. It offers some clues to the delamination of exterior paint on older wood structures that pre-date cavity insulation and vapor barriers. In previous experience, renovations from the interior that included those items contributed to the failure of paint adhesion.

    Regards,

    Wm. Le Roy, AIA 

    ------------------------------
    William Le Roy AIA
    BELL Architects
    1228 9th St NW DC 20001

    2024 HRC Taliesin West


  • 3.  RE: Experience with paint delamination?

    Posted 02-01-2016 05:26 PM

    Thanks all for the tips.

    It does seem it could be related to a variety of issues – too many layers of paint, and changes in humidity (particularly during construction.)

     

     

    Michael Bjornberg FAIA
    Project Management

    HGA   Architects and Engineers
    420 North 5th Street, Suite 100, Minneapolis, MN 55401
    Direct 612.758.4385  |  Fax 612.758.9385

    Mobile 612.859.2762
    MBjornberg@hga.com 


    Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

     




    2024 HRC Taliesin West


  • 4.  RE: Experience with paint delamination?

    Posted 02-02-2016 11:07 AM

    About 18 years ago we had a church in Tallahassee with a similar if not the same problem.  The original plaster c1840 had been plastered over in the early 20th century.  Age had caused the newer layer to delaminate in a number of areas and water was seeping into those voids.  The problem was solved by inject epoxy into the voids, having determined where they were.  The surface constitutes to be sound and intact  The work was done by an engineer in Gainesville, Florida by the name of Jim Roach; I don't have any current contact information for him, however.

    ------------------------------
    Walter Marder AIA
    Tallahassee FL

    2024 HRC Taliesin West


  • 5.  RE: Experience with paint delamination?

    Posted 01-29-2016 05:47 PM

    we had a similar issue on a 1906 era hotel. interior walls, moisture was not the problem.  when looked at by a paint specialist, the problem was identified as too many layers of paint; the initial layers could not hold all of the later layers on. have you done some paint analysis to see how many layers you have?

    ------------------------------
    Peter Birkholz AIA
    Architect
    Page & Turnbull
    san francisco CA

    2024 HRC Taliesin West


  • 6.  RE: Experience with paint delamination?

    Posted 01-29-2016 06:22 PM

    I experienced a similar issue about 3 years ago while working on a 1928 building in California.  The ceilings had been repainted multiple times with no apparent issue. About one week after priming and repainting we began to encounter issues in random locations. The ceiling paint would delaminate in large sections, removing multiple layers of otherwise sound paint. This issue was limited to the most conventional flat areas of ceiling where we were using conventional paint formulations; it was not encountered where we used conservation type products on more elaborately decorated ceilings. As there had been some plaster repair, we were concerned there might be issues with painting the fresh plaster too soon; however, it was confirmed by the plaster council that this was not the case. Based upon input from the current paint manufacturer we strongly suspected a chemical reaction between the contemporary paint formulation and one of the earlier paint layers – unfortunately, we were not in a position to have a chemical analysis prepared. The painting contractor’s solution was to scrape off the loose paint and either simply repaint or in the worst instances apply an intermediate stain-blocking paint before repainting. In several spaces this process occurred multiple times before the paint stayed adhered. I have not heard reports of further issues with delamination.

    ------------------------------
    Martin Thompson AIA
    Senior Architect
    Kodet Architectural Group, Ltd.
    Minneapolis MN

    2024 HRC Taliesin West


  • 7.  RE: Experience with paint delamination?

    Posted 01-31-2016 08:52 PM
    Edited by Lauren Dillon 01-31-2016 08:57 PM

    Michael -

    Most times a paint failure or loss of bond isn't due to issues with either the paint or the original plaster but rather are caused when new HVAC systems are introduced to the building's interior or the interior climate is stabilized to a different level. Your lime plaster takes on and releases moisture phenomenally - naturally regulating your interior environments from season to season. However, when updated systems are introduced and set to a specific temperature and humidity level the moisture that the lime plaster has held for all of these years is slowly and systematically pulled out of that lime plaster. As the moisture continually moves out of your existing plaster walls the paint peels and flakes with it as a consequence. So most times neither the plaster nor the paint are actually having issues, it is just that you have now changed the interior climate and the building is adjusting accordingly. The moisture stability of plaster is one of the main reasons why joint compound/drywall mud should never be used to restore existing plaster - it will fail over time due to the clay composition of drywall mud verses the chemical composition and the chemical changes lime plaster go through when exposed to the carbon dioxide in the surrounding air. Calcimine could be a potential issue with the failure of the paint bond but this is less likely. If a layer of calcimine was added before the application of the original paint layer you will have systematic failure throughout your structure and will need to remove all of the calcimine before addressing new paint layer applications. Hope this helps!

    design@masterofplaster.com

    ------------------------------
    Lauren Dillon
    Executive Designer
    Master of Plaster Finishing Systems, Inc.
    Columbia SC

    2024 HRC Taliesin West


  • 8.  RE: Experience with paint delamination?

    Posted 02-02-2016 11:06 AM

    Michael -

    If calcimine/distemper has been ruled out (easy to test for, tough to remove) then I would suggest a PH test to determine the alkali content of the surface of the plaster.  There are specific primers that are targeted to high-alkali surfaces, like Sherwin-Williams LOXON, which is an excellent primer for alkali or chalky surfaces.  Many typical primers do not do well with plaster.  You don't say if the present paint is a new coat over older paint or if you removed all the paint down to the plaster surface.  If the latter, then neutralization of the stripper (or not) may be an issue.

    Also, it's not necessarily lime plaster.  The early 20th century (1904) included new proprietary gypsum plaster materials as well.

    Regards,

    ------------------------------
    Jeff Clarke
    ________________________________________
    T. Jeffery Clarke AIA NCARB LEED Green Associate
    T. Jeffery Clarke Architect LLC
    116 Commons Way
    Princeton NJ 08540

    (609) 252-1164

    email - tjefferyclarke@comcast.net
    website - www.jeffclarkearchitect.com

    Please visit us on Houzz - http://www.houzz.com/pro/tjeffc/t-jeffery-clarke-architect-llc


    2024 HRC Taliesin West


  • 9.  RE: Experience with paint delamination?

    Posted 02-03-2016 09:57 AM

    Your scratch and brown coats are probably comprised of a gypsum plaster (due to date and location of your structure) but your white coat or finish coat most likely is still a lime plaster - gypsums gave quicker cure times and greater "strength" however could not compete with the beauty or finish aesthetic of the original lime plasters. You are looking for a pH of around 12 to test for limes. Loxon is great at emulsifying the existing paint levels and tying back into the plaster surface. Maintaining a stabilized interior climate is key for plaster preservation work!

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    Lauren Dillon
    Executive Designer
    Master of Plaster Finishing Systems, Inc.
    Columbia SC

    2024 HRC Taliesin West