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The mission of the Historic Resources Committee (HRC) is to identify, understand, and preserve architectural heritage, both nationally and internationally. HRC is engaged in promoting the role of the historic architect within the profession through the development of information and knowledge among members, allied professional organizations, and the public.

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Drying out a masonry building

  • 1.  Drying out a masonry building

    Posted 02-09-2016 02:04 PM

    Does anyone have experience in drying out a long-abandoned masonry building? The subject building is a former apartment building, northeast US urban setting, seven stories tall, about 3500 square feet per floor. Masonry walls, steel structure, cinder concrete floor slabs. Lots of roof leaks over time. There is some extensive water damage on the upper floors which has deteriorated the cinder concrete floor slabs; this has also corroded the steel structure in some places. The structural report also indicates that the building must be dried out over a period of up to 8 months; the preliminary cost estimate, when deconstructed, proposes using gasoline-fired heaters and fans, for 8 months, with 24-hour monitoring, at a total cost of 1.3 million dollars. This seems insane. Does anyone have any experience with this? I've worked on abandoned buildings, but have never had to do a specific drying-out exercise anything like this (or maybe we should have - who knew?)

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    Katherine Dowdell AIA
    Principal
    Farragut Street Architects
    Philadelphia PA
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    2024 HRC Taliesin West


  • 2.  RE: Drying out a masonry building

    Posted 02-10-2016 05:40 PM

    According to guidance and standards for drying flood damaged buildings: bd2760: does not recommend fuel based heaters as they add to the drying time. The document lists dessicant and refrigerant dehumidification combined with heating and fans. Link to the uk document referenced.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/6326/1773816.pdf

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    Wm Le Roy AIA

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    William Le Roy AIA
    BELL Architects
    Silver Spring MD

    2024 HRC Taliesin West


  • 3.  RE: Drying out a masonry building

    Posted 02-12-2016 03:32 PM
    A precautionary warning...once you have it dried out...and as Jim says a lot of work can take place in the process of drying...if you don't keep it conditioned (heated especially) expect all of your new finishes to be failing in big potato chip sized peels by the end of the first heating season. Good luck! 8-12 months is about right if you continue conditioning and don't try to do finishes for at least 18mos. Why continuous monitoring? That can and should be done remotely, when other work is not underway.

    Charles A Phillips, AIA, AIC-pa

    433 Phillips Rd
    Nacogdoches, Tx 75964


    640 Brookstown Ave
    Winston Salem, NC 27101


    caparch@conservearchitecture.com
    336-918-3668

    From iPhone


    2024 HRC Taliesin West


  • 4.  RE: Drying out a masonry building

    Posted 02-21-2016 11:26 AM

    In Santa Fe NM (7000 ft, very low humidity), we ran fans for 10 months to dry a brick masonry/ lime mortar structure that had been taking on water for two decades.  In difficult locations, dehumidifiers have been used.

    Time, rather than intense heat, did the trick.

    ------------------------------
    Victor Johnson AIA
    Victor Johnson Architect LLC
    PO Box 1866
    Santa Fe NM. 87504

    2024 HRC Taliesin West


  • 5.  RE: Drying out a masonry building

    Posted 02-10-2016 06:02 PM
    Edward Crocker of Crocker Ltd. in Santa Fe has such experience, especially with earthen buildings.

    Sent from my iPhone


    2024 HRC Taliesin West


  • 6.  RE: Drying out a masonry building

    Posted 02-10-2016 07:42 PM
    Yes, in the 1980's I oversaw the drying out of the long-abandoned Main Building on Ellis Island, a brick building of more than 200,000 square feet.  We built a scaffold with furnaces mounted on the exterior including large round flexible ducts connected to collars in the windows that we could drag around to individual rooms.  Worked well in cold weather whereby heated outside air is introduced very dry and pressurizes the interior, allowing massive controlled exfiltration / release through windows and doors.  Interior conditions were monitored during normal hours daily and the big flexible ducts and fans could be quickly and easily dragged to new locations until, by the warm season, real progress was made.
    Sorry I can't give you the costs or particulars about how the unions and trades handled it, but the process was very effective, and no fired equipment on the interior.  Remember that burning of fuel can itself be a source of moisture (e.g. "salamanders").  Working conditions were very pleasant and a lot of cleaning, demo and prep got done.  But by summer, this technique is insufferable.  



    2024 HRC Taliesin West


  • 7.  RE: Drying out a masonry building

    Posted 02-13-2016 04:03 PM

    Here it is February, and you might be tempted to get things done quickly, but beware.. if you're using heat, don't rush it!  One building I worked on--after a flood--it was dried out too quickly and at too high a heat.  The floors were heavy T&G structural plank, and within days, the shrinkage was severe...not just across the thickness and width as might be expected, but along the lengths as well.  All curled up.  Wall finishes suffered tool.  What a mess!  "TTT", Things Take Time

    ------------------------------
    James Rhodes FAIA
    Beacon NY

    2024 HRC Taliesin West


  • 8.  RE: Drying out a masonry building

    Posted 02-10-2016 07:50 PM

    Ms. Dowdell ---

    Hello

    Wow!  Sounds like very-mid-century construction...maybe 1930s?  While I do small projects, I've had too much experience w/ super-neglected buildings (occasionally, the first question is, "Could we discuss this outside?").

    My first impression would be; If you have a very-committed Owner, give it its finish, top-quality --- future-green? --- roof (w/ speculative box-outs for future penetrations), and then:

    1.     Strip ALL interior finishes.

    2.     Board-up / secure exterior.

    3.     Replace some windows w/ (used?) storm-proof louvers.  Add fans as needed.

    4.     Remove worst areas of slabs, steel frame, as appropriate, new bracing as needed.

    5.     Monitor...  Block louvers, + minimum heat (salamanders?), as need for sub-freezing weather.   

    Best of luck; this sounds like an "interesting" (uh-oh) project.  But if you come out the other side intact, think of the stories, and the portfolio...

    Bill Devlin

    william j. devlin aia, inc.,

    ARCHITECT

    Springfield, MA

    ------------------------------
    William Devlin AIA
    William J. Devlin, AIA, Inc.
    Springfield MA

    2024 HRC Taliesin West


  • 9.  RE: Drying out a masonry building

    Posted 02-11-2016 07:31 AM

    I agree with the earlier comments about gasoline fueled salamanders. My understanding is that they produce a gallon of water for every gallon of fuel. They will not dry out the building. Time for a new consultant.

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    William Badger AIA
    Badger and Associates, Inc.
    Manchester Center VT

    2024 HRC Taliesin West


  • 10.  RE: Drying out a masonry building

    Posted 02-12-2016 05:28 PM

    If you have electricity, try using dehumidifiers. They do the trick very well! Rent a few and experiment.

    ------------------------------
    Leslie Humphrey
    Square Peg Construction inc.
    Asheville NC

    2024 HRC Taliesin West


  • 11.  RE: Drying out a masonry building

    Posted 02-11-2016 02:51 PM
    Looks like we all should go into the drying business!

    Charles A Phillips, AIA, AIC-pa

    433 Phillips Rd
    Nacogdoches, Tx 75964


    640 Brookstown Ave
    Winston Salem, NC 27101


    caparch@conservearchitecture.com
    336-918-3668

    From iPhone


    2024 HRC Taliesin West


  • 12.  RE: Drying out a masonry building

    Posted 02-17-2016 05:08 PM

    It might be cheaper to replace the damaged portions of the structure

     

    Richard A. Miller, AIA LEED AP

    McKnight Realty Partners

    535 Smithfield Street, Suite 950

    Pittsburgh, PA 15222

    412-281-8070  Ext 111 Office

    412-288-2486 Fax

    412-559-6485 Mobile

     

    web: www.mcknightrp.com

     




    2024 HRC Taliesin West


  • 13.  RE: Drying out a masonry building

    Posted 02-18-2016 06:08 PM
    Thanks so much to everyone who responded - your thoughts and comments were very helpful.  I'll post again when a decision is made - I'm not directly involved here, and there's more back-story, so we'll see what happens.  But having this forum at my fingertips is wonderful.  Thanks again.



    2024 HRC Taliesin West


  • 14.  RE: Drying out a masonry building

    Posted 02-12-2016 08:23 AM

    Based upon the lengthy time that the building was left exposed to water infiltration 8-12 months does not sound unreasonable.  When concrete floor slabs are first cast it takes 12 - 18 months for the moisture to evaporate out of the slab and reach an equilibrium.  exposed to recurring moisture the concrete is probably near, or at, saturation level.  Plus the masonry is a fired product that will absorb and hold significant amounts of moisture as well. 


    Use of gas fired heaters is not recommended because one of the by products of combustion is moisture.  Mechanical and dessicant systems are the preferred method.




    2024 HRC Taliesin West