Retail and Entertainment

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Retail and Entertainment and Practice Management Member Conversations .
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Recently I have had requests for CAD files from clients and other 3rd parties.  The latest is from a shopping center where I did a build-out for a restaurant.  They claim that providing CAD files is required as part of the tennants lease.  I never heard of this before and am reluctant to provide CAD files.  I gave them pdf files, but they insist on CAD files.  I remember the day when drawings were done by hand.  Would they have requested the actual drawings?  I usually tell them that my insurance carrier me not to provide CAD files because of the liability.  Anyone with a similar experience? 

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David Wulff AIA
AIA, LEED-AP
David H. Wulff, Architect, Inc.
Lakeland FL
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We get the same request all the time.  What does your agreement with the client state?  I write our agreements stating that we maintain ownership of documents and that we grant a limited license to the client to use the drawings to construct the project.  When a tenant requests the CAD files, we then provide an electronic release form stating that the files are being provided as a courtesy, that there is no warranty of accuracy and that the party using the CAD file is to field verify all conditions.  They need to sign and return the form before we release the files.

As for your specific situation, I don't see how the shopping center owner can compel you to provide them with CAD files of the tenant fit up that you created if you are under contract with the tenant.  The tenant may have agreed to provide the CAD file to the center owner, but you didn't unless there is something in your agreement with the tenant.  Depending on what you want your future relationship with the tenant (or center owner) to be, you can always try to negotiate an additional fee for allowing them to use the instruments of service.  If you hope to get more work out of them, you probably will wind up "giving" up the drawings.  I would definitely get them to sign an electronic release before you provide the drawing.

 

Good luck!

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Brett Powell Assoc. AIA
Cline Design Associates, PA
Raleigh NC
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Show Original Message -------------------------------------------
Original Message:
Sent: 06-25-2012 07:42
From: David Wulff
Subject: Who owns CAD files?

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Retail and Entertainment and Practice Management Member Conversations .
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Recently I have had requests for CAD files from clients and other 3rd parties.  The latest is from a shopping center where I did a build-out for a restaurant.  They claim that providing CAD files is required as part of the tennants lease.  I never heard of this before and am reluctant to provide CAD files.  I gave them pdf files, but they insist on CAD files.  I remember the day when drawings were done by hand.  Would they have requested the actual drawings?  I usually tell them that my insurance carrier me not to provide CAD files because of the liability.  Anyone with a similar experience? 

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David Wulff AIA
AIA, LEED-AP
David H. Wulff, Architect, Inc.
Lakeland FL
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David

I'll start with the required 'I'm not an attorney and you should check with your attorney for legal advise', but first of all, unless you're a party to the lease (i.e. you're either the tenant or the landlord), you should not be bound by the lease.  If your agreement with your client requires you to either provide CADD plans, or somehow ties you to the lease, then you're on the hook.

We've done a lot of work where we are obligated to provide CADD files.  We have developed a standard disclaimer about not being able to control what happens to the files, their having been developed for the construction of the space and no other use, etc.  We also charge a fee for those files.  

It's become a much more complicated world from the days when we did actual drawings (sadly in a lot of ways), and our work is much more interconnected.  I'd talk to my attorney and/or liability insurance provider and get some good language to go with the files.

Ed

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Edward Shriver FAIA
Principal
Strada Architecture, LLC
Pittsburgh PA
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Show Original Message -------------------------------------------
Original Message:
Sent: 06-25-2012 07:42
From: David Wulff
Subject: Who owns CAD files?

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Retail and Entertainment and Practice Management Member Conversations .
-------------------------------------------
Recently I have had requests for CAD files from clients and other 3rd parties.  The latest is from a shopping center where I did a build-out for a restaurant.  They claim that providing CAD files is required as part of the tennants lease.  I never heard of this before and am reluctant to provide CAD files.  I gave them pdf files, but they insist on CAD files.  I remember the day when drawings were done by hand.  Would they have requested the actual drawings?  I usually tell them that my insurance carrier me not to provide CAD files because of the liability.  Anyone with a similar experience? 

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David Wulff AIA
AIA, LEED-AP
David H. Wulff, Architect, Inc.
Lakeland FL
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My firm does mostly public work (schools, libraries, fed, state and local govt).  In the case where we do work with Montgomery County (MD) Public Schools, technically they own the rights to the CAD drawings since they are the owner and are paying us.  However, if a contractor or subcontractor requests CAD files, we make them sign an agreement and pay us per the number of drawings they want.  The agreement states they will not just use the files for shop drawings, but that they must create their own drawings.
I have also done some work on behalf of a tenant and teh landlord was able to provide me a CAD drawing.  However, I would check the lease first.  I believe whoever your client is/was technically owns the CAD files as well.
Hope this might help.

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Robert Emard AIA, NCARB, LEED AP BD+C
Project Architect
The Lukmire Partnership, Inc.
Arlington VA
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Show Original Message -------------------------------------------
Original Message:
Sent: 06-25-2012 07:42
From: David Wulff
Subject: Who owns CAD files?

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Retail and Entertainment and Practice Management Member Conversations .
-------------------------------------------
Recently I have had requests for CAD files from clients and other 3rd parties.  The latest is from a shopping center where I did a build-out for a restaurant.  They claim that providing CAD files is required as part of the tennants lease.  I never heard of this before and am reluctant to provide CAD files.  I gave them pdf files, but they insist on CAD files.  I remember the day when drawings were done by hand.  Would they have requested the actual drawings?  I usually tell them that my insurance carrier me not to provide CAD files because of the liability.  Anyone with a similar experience? 

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David Wulff AIA
AIA, LEED-AP
David H. Wulff, Architect, Inc.
Lakeland FL
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David,
Why is this a question? Although this is a recurring issue, Architects continue to wring their hands about this. Unless the original Client / Architect agreement transfers copyright to the Client, the Architect owns the work and the instruments of service - the Documents ( let's not forget the Project Manual/Specifications ). As instruments of service produced for the purpose of the original project, the Documents are an asset and have a value. You can choose to give them away ( bad idea ), or sell use rights. You have no obligation to provide your Documents under terms of a third-party lease. To avoid the future discussion and shaming session from your original Client this should be explained during the review of the original Agreement.
When the situation comes up ( and it will ) when the Client conveniently forgets about the one-time use clause, ask the Client for an opportunity to meet with the new tenant, user, whatever, for the purpose of proposing on the new project. If that is rejected then you can decide to give away or sell a use-right to your asset. If everything is spelled out in the original Agreement and explained then it's not sour grapes or "holding the new project hostage", but rather a business decision. Remember your saving the new guys time and money in verifying field conditions by providing documents. There are all kind of nuances as to who the various parties are and what is thir relationship to each other, so each situation may be different. Ask questions, don't just blindly give your assets away for fear that your original Client won't use you again. Remember, we're consultants. We live in the moment. If we don't make money now we never will later.
You have done the most you can do by providing PDFs ( hopefully there was a disclaimer on each sheet ) for the new project. Provision of electronic files for use by a third party for a new project had several issues. You should get a written statement from your E&O carrier as to their acceptance of this, or your attorney as to your liability
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Robert Schmid AIA
Principal
RCS AIRdesign
Denver CO
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Show Original Message -------------------------------------------
Original Message:
Sent: 06-25-2012 07:42
From: David Wulff
Subject: Who owns CAD files?
This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Retail and Entertainment and Practice Management Member Conversations .
-------------------------------------------
Recently I have had requests for CAD files from clients and other 3rd parties. The latest is from a shopping center where I did a build-out for a restaurant. They claim that providing CAD files is required as part of the tennants lease. I never heard of this before and am reluctant to provide CAD files. I gave them pdf files, but they insist on CAD files. I remember the day when drawings were done by hand. Would they have requested the actual drawings? I usually tell them that my insurance carrier me not to provide CAD files because of the liability. Anyone with a similar experience?
-------------------------------------------
David Wulff AIA
AIA, LEED-AP
David H. Wulff, Architect, Inc.
Lakeland FL
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