Committee of Corporate Architects and Facility Management

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Committee of Corporate Architects and Facility Management and Small Project Practitioners .
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We are experiencing attorneys initiating discrimination suits for non compliant Toilet Facilities at existing restaurants and other public buildings in South Florida although the buildings are in full compliance for the code standards in effect when they were built. Typically they settle out of court for a few thosand dollars and move on to the next case.
My question is , if a building is in compliance with the code at the time it was built and is not being renovated, is it necessary to reconstruct Toilets for current ADA compliance ?

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Manuel Perez-Vichot AIA
Perez-Vichot & Associates, Inc.
Miami Springs FL
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James Hunt AIA
Behavioral Health Facility Consulting, LLC
Topeka KS
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It is my understanding that the federal law states that new/revised requirements do not require facilities in compliance with previous law to be updated to new laws / requirements.

I believe the authority that could give official advice on this is the United States Access Board.  Their contact information is www.access-board.gov or 800-872-2253 

Florida may have other requirements.




Show Original Message -------------------------------------------
Original Message:
Sent: 10-03-2012 09:26
From: Manuel Perez-Vichot
Subject: ADA compliance

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Committee of Corporate Architects and Facility Management and Small Project Practitioners .
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We are experiencing attorneys initiating discrimination suits for non compliant Toilet Facilities at existing restaurants and other public buildings in South Florida although the buildings are in full compliance for the code standards in effect when they were built. Typically they settle out of court for a few thosand dollars and move on to the next case.
My question is , if a building is in compliance with the code at the time it was built and is not being renovated, is it necessary to reconstruct Toilets for current ADA compliance ?

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Manuel Perez-Vichot AIA
Perez-Vichot & Associates, Inc.
Miami Springs FL
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ADA is federal legislation, not a building code.  There is no governing jurisdiction to enforce it although the IBC & some states do have their own accessiblity requirements that often mirror but can vary from ADA.  That said, it DOES give people the right to file a claim of discrimination under the ADA law.  Existing buildings are NOT exempt, although they only need to remove physical barriers when "readily achievable" and "able to be carried out without much diffulty or expense".  Those interpretations are determined on a case-by-case basis in light of the resources available.  Alterations to an area could trigger a new definition of "readily achievable" and certainly require accessiblity if they affect usabiltiy of a facility, but only if added accessiblity costs are not disproportionate to the overall caot of the original alteration (i.e. exceeding 20% according to the Title II information I've seen) .

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Kim Otten AIA
The Evangelical Lutheran Good Samaritan Society
Sioux Falls SD
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Show Original Message -------------------------------------------
Original Message:
Sent: 10-04-2012 11:06
From: James Hunt
Subject: ADA compliance



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James Hunt AIA
Behavioral Health Facility Consulting, LLC
Topeka KS
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It is my understanding that the federal law states that new/revised requirements do not require facilities in compliance with previous law to be updated to new laws / requirements.

I believe the authority that could give official advice on this is the United States Access Board.  Their contact information is www.access-board.gov or 800-872-2253 

Florida may have other requirements.



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Original Message:
Sent: 10-03-2012 09:26
From: Manuel Perez-Vichot
Subject: ADA compliance

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Committee of Corporate Architects and Facility Management and Small Project Practitioners .
-------------------------------------------
We are experiencing attorneys initiating discrimination suits for non compliant Toilet Facilities at existing restaurants and other public buildings in South Florida although the buildings are in full compliance for the code standards in effect when they were built. Typically they settle out of court for a few thosand dollars and move on to the next case.
My question is , if a building is in compliance with the code at the time it was built and is not being renovated, is it necessary to reconstruct Toilets for current ADA compliance ?

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Manuel Perez-Vichot AIA
Perez-Vichot & Associates, Inc.
Miami Springs FL
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I suggest you contact Jeffery Gross AIA in Hollywood, Florida.  He's right near you, and in my opinion, he's the expert on ADA.
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John Hoffmann FAIA
Hoffmann Architects
Hamden CT
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Show Original Message -------------------------------------------
Original Message:
Sent: 10-03-2012 09:26
From: Manuel Perez-Vichot
Subject: ADA compliance

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Committee of Corporate Architects and Facility Management and Small Project Practitioners .
-------------------------------------------
We are experiencing attorneys initiating discrimination suits for non compliant Toilet Facilities at existing restaurants and other public buildings in South Florida although the buildings are in full compliance for the code standards in effect when they were built. Typically they settle out of court for a few thosand dollars and move on to the next case.
My question is , if a building is in compliance with the code at the time it was built and is not being renovated, is it necessary to reconstruct Toilets for current ADA compliance ?

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Manuel Perez-Vichot AIA
Perez-Vichot & Associates, Inc.
Miami Springs FL
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We provide expert witness support for these type of cases. I have been involved in in nearly 40 such cases in the last two years. Often times the property owner has not done a survey to know what, if anything, they should have done for ADA compliance. This is an opportunity for business for architects.

As for your question, refer to 2010 ADA Standards for Accessible design Appendix 35.151(c) on page 10. This lets you know if you have "safe harbor" based on when the project was done. I would also recommend going to the DOJ web site for items published by them. Good luck!


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John Barley II FAIA
Managing Partner
The Barley Consulting Group LLP
Jacksonville FL
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Show Original Message -------------------------------------------
Original Message:
Sent: 10-03-2012 09:26
From: Manuel Perez-Vichot
Subject: ADA compliance

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Committee of Corporate Architects and Facility Management and Small Project Practitioners .
-------------------------------------------
We are experiencing attorneys initiating discrimination suits for non compliant Toilet Facilities at existing restaurants and other public buildings in South Florida although the buildings are in full compliance for the code standards in effect when they were built. Typically they settle out of court for a few thosand dollars and move on to the next case.
My question is , if a building is in compliance with the code at the time it was built and is not being renovated, is it necessary to reconstruct Toilets for current ADA compliance ?

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Manuel Perez-Vichot AIA
Perez-Vichot & Associates, Inc.
Miami Springs FL
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Herbert Hacker AIA
Herbert F. Hacker, Architect
Phoenix AZ
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YES! is short answer to complicated circumstances.  If the facility was built before 1993, CFR Sec36.304 Removal of Barriers items (11) to (17)  require retrofit per the 1991 (old) ADAAG. If the facilities were built 1993 to 2012 to the 1991 ADAAG standards you have "safe harbor" under the 2010 amendment Sec 36.304(d)(2)(i) - until you alter that facility or element. 

That a facility complied with building or plumbing code has no standing under ADA which is civil rights for the disabled which overrides a lesser accessibility standard. Conflicting standards are usually resolved by the someone's judgement as to which provides the greater degree of accessibility. 

As an ADA consultant, I can always find items or elements that are not in compliance either because of deficient design or poor construction management.  So can the Lawyers or advocates whose fees are guaranteed per Sec 36.505 Attorneys Fees.  Sooooo have a talk with your attorney and insurer re: an affirmative defense to this.

BTW:  all of the above and more is is posted at www.ada.gov


Show Original Message -------------------------------------------
Original Message:
Sent: 10-03-2012 09:26
From: Manuel Perez-Vichot
Subject: ADA compliance

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Committee of Corporate Architects and Facility Management and Small Project Practitioners .
-------------------------------------------
We are experiencing attorneys initiating discrimination suits for non compliant Toilet Facilities at existing restaurants and other public buildings in South Florida although the buildings are in full compliance for the code standards in effect when they were built. Typically they settle out of court for a few thosand dollars and move on to the next case.
My question is , if a building is in compliance with the code at the time it was built and is not being renovated, is it necessary to reconstruct Toilets for current ADA compliance ?

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Manuel Perez-Vichot AIA
Perez-Vichot & Associates, Inc.
Miami Springs FL
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