One moment, processing...

Printer-friendly version

Custom Residential Architects Network

Custom Residential Architects Network sorted by thread
 
  BIM- What is the downside?
February 28, 2012 8:21 AMRaymond Stran...
  RE:BIM- What is the downside?
February 29, 2012 2:54 AMGordon McKenz...
  RE:BIM- What is the downside?
March 01, 2012 7:29 AMMr. Gregory L...
  RE:BIM- What is the downside?
March 02, 2012 11:54 AMGordon McKenz...
  RE:BIM- What is the downside?
March 05, 2012 1:29 PMMr. Gregory L...
  RE:BIM- What is the downside?
March 02, 2012 12:46 PMEric Rawlings...
  RE:BIM- What is the downside?
February 29, 2012 8:37 AMMr. Gregory L...
  RE:BIM- What is the downside?
March 01, 2012 6:46 AMEric Rawlings...
  RE:BIM- What is the downside?
March 02, 2012 11:34 AMGordon McKenz...
  RE:BIM- What is the downside?
March 28, 2012 5:19 PMKathleen Simpson
  RE:BIM- What is the downside?
March 02, 2012 1:48 PMMr. Gregory L...
  RE:BIM- What is the downside?
March 06, 2012 4:27 AMEric Rawlings...
  RE:BIM- What is the downside?
March 07, 2012 8:57 AMMr. Gregory L...
  RE:BIM- What is the downside?
March 07, 2012 9:57 AMDebra Coleman...
  RE:BIM- What is the downside?
March 08, 2012 7:08 AMEric Rawlings...
  RE:BIM- What is the downside?
March 08, 2012 1:02 PMPaul Adams, AIA
  RE:BIM- What is the downside?
March 02, 2012 4:17 PMMary Holley, AIA
  RE:BIM- What is the downside?
March 03, 2012 12:35 AMDavid Fisher,...
  RE:BIM- What is the downside?
March 01, 2012 9:07 AMDavid Peterso...
  RE:BIM- What is the downside?
February 29, 2012 9:10 AMLee Calisti, AIA
  RE:BIM- What is the downside?
February 29, 2012 5:51 PMMichael Malin...
  RE:BIM- What is the downside?
February 29, 2012 7:03 PMMary Cerrone,...
 

1.
BIM- What is the downside?
From: Raymond Strang, AIA
To: Custom Residential Architects Network
Posted: February 28, 2012 8:21 AM
Subject: BIM- What is the downside?
Message:
This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Custom Residential Architects Network and Technology in Architectural Practice .
-------------------------------------------


-------------------------------------------
Raymond Strang AIA
Raymond Strang & Associates, AIA
Stevensville MD
-------------------------------------------

I know this might sound tongue-in-cheek, but I ask it in all seriousness- where are the continuing ed seminars by firms that have lost their tails on small projects with BIM? Since when is it the AIA's place to sell BIM for the software companies? After all, BIM was developed by those companies as a product to be sold at a profit, not by a grassroots architectural movement trying to fill a pressing need with expensive software.

A bit of context: we are a profitable firm specializing in big, expensive houses and small commercial projects where the Client wants to make an impression. We work on Apple computers, and are generally on the technological "bleeding edge"; usually we are early adopters. We stay current with Archicad, against the day we decide to take a commercial project where BIM is a requirement. But we do not use it. Instead, we use various individual software tools as appropriate, and a lot of sketch pads. Everything comes out in 3D, and all working drawings are produced in CAD. We try a project either in Vectorworks or Archicad about once a year. Those projects are always less profitable. In other words, it is more profitable to keep an array of tools handy and use them as needed than it is to try to get one tool to fit all needs- shoehorning a project into a piece of software is not a good method; a lot of extra data is not profitable.

Of course I realize that there are situations where BIM is called for, and the right tool for the job. And I realize that there are very good architects who have built their entire work flow around BIM software with good results. But it is not true that BIM is inherently a better approach to small or medium sized projects. And the AIA has no business acting as the sales force for the companies that sell it. So I ask again, in all seriousness- where are the seminars by firms that tell why BIM is NOT the right tool? And what can we learn from their experiences?

Thanks,
Ray Strang
Be the first person to recommend this.


2.
RE:BIM- What is the downside?
From: Gordon McKenzie, Assoc. AIA
To: Custom Residential Architects Network
Posted: February 29, 2012 2:54 AM
Subject: RE:BIM- What is the downside?
Message:
I'm a one man CAD shop that hasn't used CAD for production work in years. I also train people to use Revit. My clients are sole practitioners, small office, or contractors and home owners. One sole practitioner in particular uses Revit exclusively and is much more profitable on high end residential projects and small commercial projects than he ever was using good old 2D CAD. The time savings are huge. The design on the fly abilities are great in client meetings. Now granted he's mainly using (lowercase) bim and not (capital) BIM. Revit is a production tool when all is said and done for most people. The true sense of BIM isn't in use just yet. But the ease of use and productivity means he can charge the same fee and spend less time getting it done. Not to imply you are doing something wrong with BIM, but maybe change things up a bit? By you're own admission you only delve in once or twice a year. That's part of the problem. Just like CAD it takes practice and refinement to go from slow and relearning your way each time, to great & fast production.

Those firms that I see with the greatest success are those that dove in the BIM pool head first and came out at the other end with a tail and dorsal fin. You're not going to be that profitable at first. Simple fact in numbers. The learning curve is too great. But I've said this before. Once your learning curve starts to level out, you'll be in much better shape. And you might like what your results.   

-------------------------------------------
Gordon McKenzie Assoc. AIA
Tartan CAD Services
Lewisville TX
-------------------------------------------






Show Original Message
Be the first person to recommend this.


3.
RE:BIM- What is the downside?
From: Mr. Gregory La Vardera
To: Custom Residential Architects Network
Posted: March 01, 2012 7:29 AM
Subject: RE:BIM- What is the downside?
Message:
Gordon, You may be faster with BIM than you are with CAD, but I doubt you are faster with BIM than Ray is with 2d.

I don't use BIM but I also use 3d in meetings with clients, and I also use 3d to generate the bulk of my 2d content reducing drawing time. But since the greater bulk of drawing time is adding content in 2d, any speed advantages of BIM are trumped by a faster 2d drawing environment. I'm publishing paper drawings in the end.

-------------------------------------------
Gregory La Vardera
Architect
Gregory La Vardera Architect
Merchantville NJ
-------------------------------------------






Show Original Message
Be the first person to recommend this.


4.
RE:BIM- What is the downside?
From: Gordon McKenzie, Assoc. AIA
To: Custom Residential Architects Network
Posted: March 02, 2012 11:54 AM
Subject: RE:BIM- What is the downside?
Message:
Greg,
Please don't take offense but that made absolutely no sense. If you are using a BIM program. ArchiCAD, VectorWorks, Revit, whatever. You're 3D is also your plans. It's also your sections, your elevations, your reflected ceilings, etc, etc, etc. The only 2D elements I add to my 3D Bim model are dimensions, annotations, references and notes. The exact same thing you do in flatCAD.

To hold up to your challenge, by the time I place a floor, walls, doors, windows, ceiling, and a roof in my BIM model, at the exact same time I have generated all plans, elevations, cut sections ready to be detailed, tagged & scheduled all doors and windows, start detailing, all of which will ready to be on a sheet with all references automatically linked with zero errors. When I'm done with all that, I can look over to see Ray just finishing his nicely crafted plans and possibly starting his elevations. All that challenge said is that you really don't know the true power of an actual BIM model. I don't draw parallel lines and call it a wall. I draw a true 3 dimensional object that has intelligence with brick, air space, membrane, sheathing, studs, and drywall. As I draw them the program is tracking quantities. I can schedule those quantities if I want. It's in there. The idea is faster production that generates paper just like you said. Real BIM programs run circles around flatCAD anyday of the week.

-------------------------------------------
Gordon McKenzie Assoc. AIA
Tartan CAD Services
Lewisville TX
-------------------------------------------






Show Original Message
Be the first person to recommend this.


5.
RE:BIM- What is the downside?
From: Mr. Gregory La Vardera
To: Custom Residential Architects Network
Posted: March 05, 2012 1:29 PM
Subject: RE:BIM- What is the downside?
Message:
Gordon,

I did not say I was using BIM. I said I was using 3d. I have the same benefits of rapidly producing plans, elevations, and sections "without error" as you put it. And I'd dare say even faster because my 3d software is better and faster 3d software than BIM, and my 2d software is better and faster 2d software than BIM, and I feel makes better looking drawings. That is my experience after practicing with CAD for 25 years using and observing several platforms including the afore mentioned Architrion, a rudimentary BIM package from the 80's. I am not a CAD "specialist" nor am I a CAD salesman. In this matter I would only take advice from other practicing architects as I've seen many of my employers sold down the river by CAD salesman.


-------------------------------------------
Gregory La Vardera
Architect
Gregory La Vardera Architect
Merchantville NJ
-------------------------------------------






Show Original Message
Be the first person to recommend this.


6.
RE:BIM- What is the downside?
From: Eric Rawlings, AIA
To: Custom Residential Architects Network
Posted: March 02, 2012 12:46 PM
Subject: RE:BIM- What is the downside?
Message:
I just finished a 3100 sf spec house for a builder in 47 hours total using BIM. That's from the first meeting with the builder to sending out the permit drawings. City of Atlanta requirements are rather extensive too. It wasn't a stacked box either. It was a Prairie style house with 2 nine foot cantilever roofs (using lumber, no steel), the upper level stepped in requiring creative structural design. It was not a simplistic box. Now this isn't all BIM skill. This does require coming up with a design the owner (in this case the builder) will like in a timely manner. I've seen interns spend 47 hours getting virtually nothing done. This kind of speed is common to achieve when you work smart and exploit the full array of functionality of your tools. My BIM template has many "favorites" that help me quickly access all my standard elements. I have a system that allows me to build 3D models half asleep and maintain consistency. I know I can complete projects faster in BIM than FlatCAD and I'll take a 2D vs 3D challenge any day, but this is more about working smart than drafting fast. Any monkey can click buttons real fast, but not any monkey can click the right buttons efficiently to complete a house set in 47 hours. When I'm done, I won't get called out to the field either. I'll have unlimited 3d images for marketing, interconnected window and door schedules, unlimited building sections of every nook and cranny, etc. Once you build a model, you have access to mountains of information. In FlatCAD, you have to hand build every single view and if there are any changes, you're individually correcting each and every drawing. If you want one more building section, you have to hand build it. Every time I get AutoCAD files for multistory buildings, the levels never line up. In BIM, you would see an obvious problem like this, but in FlatCAD your plans are not tied to your elevations in the form of a 3D model, so a plan can look one way while the elevation could be completely different and there is no "check" to see it like a brutally honest 3D BIM model. I've gotten to a point where I rarely look at 2D elevations much. I complete them for the working drawings, but I'm always looking at the building in 3D. It's difficult to "turn the corner" when seeing the building in four flat views. I hardly look at facades, I'm more interested in how one facade connects to the other as you "turn the corner". Try that in FlatCAD and tell me you understand your design as well I as I understand mine.

-------------------------------------------
Eric Rawlings AIA
Owner
Rawlings Design, Inc.
Decatur GA
-------------------------------------------






Show Original Message
Be the first person to recommend this.


7.
RE:BIM- What is the downside?
From: Mr. Gregory La Vardera
To: Custom Residential Architects Network
Posted: February 29, 2012 8:37 AM
Subject: RE:BIM- What is the downside?
Message:
I'm with you Ray. For my work as long as I am ultimately publishing drawings, BIM makes no sense in my workflow. When I can turn over a 3d information model to the contractor instead of drawings, well then yes. Till then I'm publishing drawings.

Why does this happen? I don't know. I was there however when firms began using CAD. I witnessed countless firms adopt CAD for the first time. These decisions were largely made by architects who were incompetent in the software and computers they were taking on, made largely on the advice of salesman and vendors, or engineers who had taken the leap earlier. They all experienced incredible training costs, disrupted workflow, and undue expense, largely because they had no idea what they were buying, never explored the alternatives, and allowed themselves to be persuaded or bullied by what everybody else was doing. I can't help but think there is a large dose of this same dynamic happening now.

Oh, and my drawings look better than yours.

-------------------------------------------
Gregory La Vardera
Architect
Gregory La Vardera Architect
Merchantville NJ
-------------------------------------------






Show Original Message
Be the first person to recommend this.


8.
RE:BIM- What is the downside?
From: Eric Rawlings, AIA
To: Custom Residential Architects Network
Posted: March 01, 2012 6:46 AM
Subject: RE:BIM- What is the downside?
Message:
I spent many years training Architects to use BIM and it's always the same story. The negative folks typically are trying to use BIM like a FlatCAD program, which is like trying to cut a piece of loose leaf paper with a band saw. Improper use of tools can be frustrating and dangerous. Right now, I've been using BIM for the smallest residential addition to large new residences with a small commercial project here and there. When working at firms I've used it for work on 200,000sf buildings. Project scale isn't the problem, it's the attitude toward modeling the proper amount in 3D. FlatCAD users think in sheets, while BIM users think in terms of a whole 3D building. The entire firm has to be on board with the BIM process or you'll find the principle asking for a front elevation only, so the intern elevates the floor plan in 2D for the one elevation, rather than investing the time up front to build a sensible model of the whole building. Once you start heading down the 2D path with BIM, you will essentially double your work load trying to keep up with this hybrid monster. Those who can't get efficiency out of BIM are simply doing it wrong. It takes a bit of faith before one can understand why a well built 3D model is so valuable. Making changes to a well built model should make your life easier, as the 3D elements only need changing once and every drawing will update, but if you went and drew some elevations and sections in 2D, now you're changing a model and each 2D drawing individually. This is time consuming and prone to errors. If this is you, then you're doing it wrong! I see plenty of people on this blog that are having great experiences like me and I've taught many people to use BIM, so I'm not buying this stuff that it's not for every project or firm. The FlatCAD process is more like hand drawing in concept and that's why BIM is more difficult to digest for some. It requires a completely different way of thinking about documenting buildings. Those of you who don't understand why a 3D model is useful are probably the same people who have fudged a roof or stair before only to be called out to the field with a major geometry problem. The only times I get called out to the field is when someone builds something wrong, not because my geometry was fudged in a 2D elevation. I have 100% confidence that the design is geometrically valid when I build a proper BIM model.

Don't hate the bandsaw because you're trying to cut paper instead of boards.


-------------------------------------------
Eric Rawlings AIA
Owner
Rawlings Design, Inc.
Decatur GA
-------------------------------------------






Show Original Message
Be the first person to recommend this.


9.
RE:BIM- What is the downside?
From: Gordon McKenzie, Assoc. AIA
To: Custom Residential Architects Network
Posted: March 02, 2012 11:34 AM
Subject: RE:BIM- What is the downside?
Message:
If only individual posts had a "Like" button. lol. I run into the same thing Eric.

-------------------------------------------
Gordon McKenzie Assoc. AIA
Tartan CAD Services
Lewisville TX
-------------------------------------------






Show Original Message
Be the first person to recommend this.


10.
RE:BIM- What is the downside?
From: Kathleen Simpson
To: Custom Residential Architects Network
Posted: March 28, 2012 5:19 PM
Subject: RE:BIM- What is the downside?
Message:
Gordon,

Great idea! I am excited to introduce a new feature on AIA KnowledgeNet. You can click the "Recommend" link on a discussion forum post.

We will be featuring highly recommended content on the website's homepage in the near future. Please help us surface good content by clicking "Recommend" where appropriate.

*Note: As with all "contribute" functions on the site, you must be logged in to use *and even see) this feature. However, anyone can create an AIA.org Account and join the conversation.

-------------------------------------------
Kathleen Simpson
Manager, Knowledge Communities
The American Institute of Architects
Washington DC
-------------------------------------------






Show Original Message
Be the first person to recommend this.


11.
RE:BIM- What is the downside?
From: Mr. Gregory La Vardera
To: Custom Residential Architects Network
Posted: March 02, 2012 1:48 PM
Subject: RE:BIM- What is the downside?
Message:
Eric, I'm not plagued by the shortcuts and troubles you describe simply because I'm not using BIM software. I work in 3d, and bring content from that into an efficient 2d drawing environment. Corrections and changes that ripple through the drawings are very rare for me, so when they happen perhaps they take longer than you to correct, but never very long I can assure you. Certainly not long enough to justify moving to a less efficient workflow over all.

Oh, and my drawings look better than yours ;^)

-------------------------------------------
Gregory La Vardera
Architect
Gregory La Vardera Architect
Merchantville NJ
-------------------------------------------











Be the first person to recommend this.


12.
RE:BIM- What is the downside?
From: Eric Rawlings, AIA
To: Custom Residential Architects Network
Posted: March 06, 2012 4:27 AM
Subject: RE:BIM- What is the downside?
Message:
That's a bold statement, seeing how you've never seen my drawings. I rarely get called out to the field and I'm getting some rather complicated buildings built by some rather ordinary home builders. I know the installers are having no problems reading them, but I'm in the business of getting buildings built with my drawings. They're not meant to hang on the coffee shop wall and are often found covered in mud. How is it more efficient to build a 3D model in one program and then "export" that info into a 2D program to create the working drawings? I do all of that in one program, keeping the integrity of the information pure and simple. Just the translation alone is unnecessarily inefficient and a one way street. How do you get the next 3d view after the first design changes? Builders love 3d images to market their spec houses and Homeowners make decisions quicker when they can see a 3D image of each and every change. My images are a free by-product of the standard process that are always up to date. The most efficient use of my time is to sit down with a client and my lap top and have a one hour design meeting in 3D. I wow them with all the pretty 3D updates in real time and we make quick decisions that can take weeks of back and forth via email. Clients can't read flat elevations or sections very well and often don't understand what they're agreeing to. 3D eliminates that. The only time my clients see a flat section or elevation is when I give them the final drawings and at that point they understand everything from a 3D perspective, so the 2D drawings make more sense.

Once you understand how to assemble a model that efficiently utilizes all of it's pieces and parts to represent the things you need to show in 2D, you'll understand why BIM is actually more efficient. The other common misconception is how the drawings look. I can make my 2D drawings look however I want. BIM takes absolutely nothing away from making 2D info look any different than any other program. I can create any line type, fill pattern, import any image, create any colors, line weights, etc. Since the Drawing Set is all in one file, BIM can auto number every drawing in the set. I can move a floor plan from one sheet to the other and not think about all the elevations, sections, details, etc that are referenced to it as every number auto-updates. I "build" my final CDs last and only once. I typically turn around 3000sf houses in 45-55 hours for builders and 50-70 hours for end users. That's from first meeting to handing off the final drawings. I've been using ArchiCAD since 1997, so I may make it sound easy. It's like learning to swing a golf club or play an instrument. It's overwhelming at first and you make many frustrating mistakes. As you gain experience, you become more judicious about how you use the program and it's tools. Once you begin thinking in 3D and how it translates to 2D simultaneously, you no longer become encumbered with the notion that they are separate processes. It's one experience with continuity. It is a far more efficient workflow and I've done it both ways.

-------------------------------------------
Eric Rawlings AIA
Owner
Rawlings Design, Inc.
Decatur GA
-------------------------------------------






Show Original Message
Be the first person to recommend this.


13.
RE:BIM- What is the downside?
From: Mr. Gregory La Vardera
To: Custom Residential Architects Network
Posted: March 07, 2012 8:57 AM
Subject: RE:BIM- What is the downside?
Message:
Eric, I understand how the 3d model is integrated. My experience is that the kind of revisions that make this integration really pay off are very rare in my practice. So this being the driving reason to use BIM is like the tail wagging the dog. In the meantime I get better & faster results with working with 3d software that is better at doing 3d than BIM, and 2d software that is better at doing 2d than BIM.

I'm sure you and others get great results with it - I'm happy for you. But the assertion that its the best solution reminds me of similar endorsements of autocad over alternate products in the past. Experience showed they were wrong. Very wrong actually. So I'm highly skeptical here as well.

I've had these endless CAD arguments before and they get nowhere. I'm ready to move on. Anybody?

-------------------------------------------
Gregory La Vardera
Architect
Gregory La Vardera Architect
Merchantville NJ
-------------------------------------------






Show Original Message
Be the first person to recommend this.


14.
RE:BIM- What is the downside?
From: Debra Coleman, AIA
To: Custom Residential Architects Network
Posted: March 07, 2012 9:57 AM
Subject: RE:BIM- What is the downside?
Message:
Eric, I am really enjoying your posts on BIM!

Regarding time that you stated:" I typically turn around 3000sf houses in 45-55 hours for builders and 50-70 hours for end users. "  I am curious if that includes meeting and email time with clients as well as the research that inevitable accompanies projects.  Regardless of software used, I am finding that with some extremely detailed clients, or those trying to sub out a house themselves, that the amount of time that we spend meeting, researching and emailing - consulting in general - can come close to the amount of time that we might spend  with the drawings. 

Wondering if others are experiencing the same?

-------------------------------------------
Debra Rucker Coleman, AIA
Architect
Sun Plans Inc.
Mobile, AL

-------------------------------------------






Show Original Message
Be the first person to recommend this.


15.
RE:BIM- What is the downside?
From: Eric Rawlings, AIA
To: Custom Residential Architects Network
Posted: March 08, 2012 7:08 AM
Subject: RE:BIM- What is the downside?
Message:
This is from the first meeting to completion of the drawings. If you look at the typical set of drawings a homebuilder is used to working from and double that info, then you end up drawing less than half of what the average Architect draws for a simple house. I've learned to remove all the "extras" in order to provide the basic requirements that the City is looking for. After drawing 100 cabinet elevations and not getting a single kitchen built according to the design because the builder has a cabinet maker with special spice racks, and other unique casework items, you begin to realize it's a futile effort. Unlike most Architects, I've only had 3 millionaire clients out of about 200. I'm providing Architectural design to those who typically can't afford it. Therefore I strip down my services to offer a fee they can afford. Ultimately, I can get 30+ houses built in a year as a sole practitioner.

With spec builders, they are always in an extreme hurry, so decisions are made quickly. It is their house to try and sell, so it's their privilege to select finishes, fixtures, etc. This cuts out a huge chunk of time. With middle class home owners, they can't afford NOT to go shopping with the builder, as my selections for finishes, fixtures, and such will always be more expensive than similar items found using the builder's resources. I work with good builders that I trust as a teammate, just like you may hire an interior designer to do the same task. You'd be surprised, as spec builders aren't competing with design, they compete with the way they finish the house. Middle class people can never afford the items we tend to select, so I let them shop with the builder for 40+ hours (which they will do anyway, no matter how much you fight it). I ask them to pick out 3 choices of each item and I help them make the executive decisions in the end, which takes me an hour instead of 40+. I work the builder like they tend to work us. The wealthy clients are the pains in the butt. They work you to death, so even with the bigger fee, you still make less money per hour. I do what I consider the minimum service for a minimum "set up" charge. When you work for the rich, you often bundle a bunch of extra services for a discount. This gives you a bigger fee, but more hours per dollar. If a painter shows up to cover 2sf or 200sf of wall, it'll cost the same minimum fee just to show up, so I do the 2sf. 

I model everything in BIM and only show clients 3D images and floor plans during the design process. The only time they see a flat 2D elevation is when I give them the final drawings. This saves massive amounts of time, because 3D BIM models do need a little embellishing to make them look nice, which takes time. If you start embellishing from the beginning, you're drawing in 3D and 2D, essentially doubling the work. Avoid drawing in 2D as much as possible in BIM and you will save time. The importance of brining up BIM, is that the clients always get the 3D images and will make decisions quickly when they understand what they're looking at. A one hour design meeting in 3D with the client and my laptop can save me a week or more of back and forth. It helps them understand the geometrical limitations of a stair or roof. It helps them to understand the complicated things we take for granted that often drive the design.

I'm not operating in a traditional environment with the traditional clients Architects tend to work for. I'm bringing good Architecture to spec builders and middle class homeowners because this is the sector in need. This is the sector that doesn't understand our value and also the sector with the most clients by far. 80% of all new houses are spec houses. Think about that...

-------------------------------------------
Eric Rawlings AIA
Owner
Rawlings Design, Inc.
Decatur GA
-------------------------------------------






Show Original Message
Be the first person to recommend this.


16.
RE:BIM- What is the downside?
From: Paul Adams, AIA
To: Custom Residential Architects Network
Posted: March 08, 2012 1:02 PM
Subject: RE:BIM- What is the downside?
Message:
Debra,

I am finding that managing the Client's expectations takes the same amount of time as producing a design and the corresponding drawing set. I can do the drawings in a similar time frame as Eric states. The difficult part is getting the Client to make a decision, even with the clear 3D views and basic cost information to guide them. It seems that in the last five years or so, EVERY decision turns into an ordeal where they second guess me, my expert consultants and their own partner. As a result, I typically have twice or more hours in than my proposal allowed for--even considering this issue.

This problem isn't a software decision. I am already losing a greater percentage of my proposals on fee alone; they like me and my work, but will still go with an unlicensed designer using pirated software to save a few thousand dollars on the fee. My attempts to educate them on the value I add and the greater value of the built project with my expertise falls on deaf ears.

I would love to hear what others are doing to deal with this rising Fear Factor from Clients.

-------------------------------------------
Paul Adams AIA
Principal
Earth And Sky Architecture
Denver CO
-------------------------------------------






Show Original Message
Be the first person to recommend this.


17.
RE:BIM- What is the downside?
From: Mary Holley, AIA
To: Custom Residential Architects Network
Posted: March 02, 2012 4:17 PM
Subject: RE:BIM- What is the downside?
Message:
That's a pretty bold statement: "Those of you who don't understand why a 3D model is useful are probably the same people who have fudged a roof or stair before only to be called out to the field with a major geometry problem."

I don't think anyone is questioning the usefulness of a 3D model.  Nor do I have the temerity to call into question the accuracy of my colleague's drawings as you do, Mr. Rawlings.  My essential issue (and other's too, apparently) is that I simply cannot afford to buy an $5,500 program, pay yearly for a subscription, and spend 2-3 months getting up to speed on it.  Besides, I already HAVE a BIM program--it's called "3D visualization" and surprisingly enough, I can do this without the aid of any computers at all! 

I know I have to eventually figure a BIM program out otherwise when the time comes that a client (or project) requires it, I will be forced to subcontract out the drawings--and there goes my profit.  Unfortunately, that's the issue: even though I don't think I need it in my practice, at some point my lack of BIM modelling may become a deal-breaker for a potential project.  I don't want that to happen, but I also don't want to go broke.  It's a tightrope I'm walking for sure, and I can tell, I'm not the only one.

Finally, my main concern regarding BIM is my liability.  If I am modelling a building am I not essentially showing the means and methods of construction--a big no-no as far as liability is concerned?  I highly recommend you review this article, which states the case more elequently than I can:

http://www.constructionrisk.com/2011/01/how-building-information-modeling-bim-impacts-insurance-availability-by-changing-the-roles-responsibilities-and-risks-of-project-participants/
-------------------------------------------
Mary Holley AIA
President
ma2 architects
Basalt CO
-------------------------------------------






Show Original Message
Be the first person to recommend this.


18.
RE:BIM- What is the downside?
From: David Fisher, AIA
To: Custom Residential Architects Network
Posted: March 03, 2012 12:35 AM
Subject: RE:BIM- What is the downside?
Message:


-------------------------------------------
David Fisher AIA
Fisher Architects
Gig Harbor WA
-------------------------------------------
I have had the pleasure of or using BIM ( REVIT) for over 6 years.   I have found it fun and efficient, while my clients visually enjoy knowing what they are getting inside and out.  I also seem to get more work because of my architectural experience added with my use of virtual 3-D presentations, followed by better and more complete construction drawings. I am now pushing  BIM to construction management. I obtained my contractor  license and use BIM in  my Contractor / Client agreements and  agreements with Sub contractors and Suppliers. The subcontractors appreciate the completeness and clarity of the construction drawings.  Now they get to see the details in 3-D and with multiple views in 3-D. Schedules and quantity take offs area are a snap. They really understand what they are building and they fell more confident giving better more competitive bids.    I honestly can see that day when who every controls the virtual 3-D model ( BIM ) will have control of the project.  Meaning, that if archtiects want to lead then they need to take control of the project, and with that they will make a better living.

Not sure there is a down side to BIM?  If BIM  is used to it potential then it is worth the time and expense!





Show Original Message
Be the first person to recommend this.


19.
RE:BIM- What is the downside?
From: David Peterson, AIA
To: Custom Residential Architects Network
Posted: March 01, 2012 9:07 AM
Subject: RE:BIM- What is the downside?
Message:
In the late 80's my partner and I began using Architrion, which is now no longer supported. We liked it because we could start design in 3D. The term "BIM" was not a concept then. In the 80's, anything 3D excited clients. I still design with it. I just make a dxf file and give it to a drafting person. Conceptually, it was the easiest software to learn. I taught the program at a local university for an intro to CADD. In 2 hours, any student could design a one room cabin and print the plan, elevations, etc.

Many of the "Revit" drawings are not much different than Architrion. I just like designing in 3D. The BIM concept if it is going to be used as advertise , has along way to go. It requires the operator to know a lot about building components. Beginning drafting persons and architects often don't know the real basics , in my opinion.

Since my program is not supported, keep an old Mac around to run it. I am now looking at ArchiCad. I can run it on my current Mac laptop. ArchiCad is more intuitive like Architrion. 

My real point is, I like designing in 3D. Period. BIM, to me is not a computer program, it is a concept. From my perspective, I believe many are confusing the tools.  

-------------------------------------------
David Peterson AIA
Consulting Architect
Lien & Peterson Architects
Eau Claire WI
-------------------------------------------






Show Original Message
Be the first person to recommend this.


20.
RE:BIM- What is the downside?
From: Lee Calisti, AIA
To: Custom Residential Architects Network
Posted: February 29, 2012 9:10 AM
Subject: RE:BIM- What is the downside?
Message:
Ray,

I couldn't agree with you more. I originally voiced my opinions in my blog post titled "the bummer of BIM" found at http://wp.me/p1gGBj-e4. Architectural Record picked up my syndicated blog and I received more traffic than ever with thousands and thousands of hits. It began to strike a nerve.

I continue to have the same struggle and opinion as you, however yesterday I watched an online webinar from last year's AIA Convention at http://bit.ly/ol8C8Z. It was the first honest and useful discussion of BIM. I never questioned BIM for the extremely large project, but the small practitioners have to be real. The real questions weren't being published, but were being asked. This webinar made me feel better about it.

I'm ready Randy Deutsch's book on BIM which is getting at the heart of this and there is one more out there I'm interested in by Francois Levy. It's not going away, but it's time we start talking openly and honestly about it without the vendors pushing for more sales.

-------------------------------------------
Lee Calisti AIA
Principal
lee CALISTI architecture+design
Greensburg PA
-------------------------------------------






Show Original Message
Be the first person to recommend this.


21.
RE:BIM- What is the downside?
From: Michael Malinowski, AIA
To: Custom Residential Architects Network
Posted: February 29, 2012 5:51 PM
Subject: RE:BIM- What is the downside?
Message:

Hi Raymond
I happened to see a presentation on line from the last convention that covered the exact topic you mention (even though it was titled to suggest it was another BIM rah!Rah! session, it was actually more of a description of how in a small firm knowing when to 'draw the line' (IE stop using the software) was important to staying on a budget.  Its free to view; you only pay if you want the CE credit
-------------------

AIA 2011 SA402

BIM for Residential Architecture? 
A Small Firm Primer
 
------------------------
Michael Malinowski AIA
AIA Director - California Region
Applied Architecture, Inc.
Sacramento CA
-------------------------------------------






Show Original Message
Be the first person to recommend this.


22.
RE:BIM- What is the downside?
From: Mary Cerrone, AIA
To: Custom Residential Architects Network
Posted: February 29, 2012 7:03 PM
Subject: RE:BIM- What is the downside?
Message:


-------------------------------------------
Mary Cerrone AIA
Mary Cerrone Architects and Interiors
Pittsburgh PA
-------------------------------------------


I like Revit, but the lineweight situration is horrible. Is it too much to ask that the BIM model show up in plan, section and elevation in a reasonable depiction with regards to lineweight? I keep fussing with settings and "work arounds", but have not found the answer.



Show Original Message
Be the first person to recommend this.
©2013 The American Institute of Architects