Practice Management Member Conversations

-Architectural Value

Architectural Value is a nice idea, but the general public does not really value architectural sevricves or have any idea of what we do.  My own family has no idea of what I as an architect does no matter how many times I have explained to them.  They think we just do pretty pictures of if we do drawings or specificaitons, and all of that is computerized.  They know that we sometimes help to get permits, but that is about it.

My brother, a banker, felt and somewhat still feels, that the contractor goes to Home Depot, buys some steel or concrete, cuts into length, pounds it to fit, and paints it to match.  He is 50.  A couple of years ago he asked me what I really did?  He still is clueless as are my sister and mother.

The public loves the name architect, but try to get them to pay for our services.  They will pay an engineer because that is math and difficult. But design and coordination, the general public has no idea.  Just look at the architects portaryed in movies or on TV sitcoms over the years; Mr. Ed and the Brady Bunch!

I try to use the examples of an orchestra conductor or a restaurant chef.  A conductor will write of arrange the music and have different professional groups, string, woodwinds, percussion, horns, etc. play in order to have a composition.  If you just let everyone do their own thing, one ends up with noise.

Are best clients are ones that understand what we do, have tried to do it themselves, and want no part in what an architect does.  Unfortunately, the general public thinks that we are all bunch of prima donnas who do not care about cost, building efficiency, or time.  The engineers and contractors do the work.  Architects just make a project pretty, or do designs to win awards that they give to each other.

------------------------------------------
David Hauseman AIA
The Hauseman Group, Inc.
Atlanta GA
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R. Sandquist AIA
Vice President
Sandquist Construction Group Inc
Lincoln NE
-------------------------------------------
Fees? Value? Public perception of fees and value?  As an architect with my own general contracting business, all this discussion on the architectural profession's value and the public's ignorance of what architects do and what they get paid for suggests both good and the bad:
        1.    PRO: The architectural profession is apparently doing a darn good job at what they do - design in general, designing to codes, promoting building safety and welfare, etc, etc, etc.  Compare this to a different profession - if eveyone always seemed to be in perfect health, would the public feel the same need for doctors or the medical profession?  I suggest probably not!
        2.    CON: The architectural profession does a darn poor job of making their profession more visible to the public, and letting the public know what they do.  I always remember from college days being surprised at how many architectural co-students quite admittedly still had such minimal understanding of the profession and what architects do.  I believe the profession and the AIA both need much more visibility, positive visibilityto be better perceived, and I continue those efforts locally.





Original Message:
Sent: 01-05-2011 01:51
From: David Hauseman
Subject: Archtiectual Value

-Architectural Value

Architectural Value is a nice idea, but the general public does not really value architectural sevricves or have any idea of what we do.  My own family has no idea of what I as an architect does no matter how many times I have explained to them.  They think we just do pretty pictures of if we do drawings or specificaitons, and all of that is computerized.  They know that we sometimes help to get permits, but that is about it.

My brother, a banker, felt and somewhat still feels, that the contractor goes to Home Depot, buys some steel or concrete, cuts into length, pounds it to fit, and paints it to match.  He is 50.  A couple of years ago he asked me what I really did?  He still is clueless as are my sister and mother.

The public loves the name architect, but try to get them to pay for our services.  They will pay an engineer because that is math and difficult. But design and coordination, the general public has no idea.  Just look at the architects portaryed in movies or on TV sitcoms over the years; Mr. Ed and the Brady Bunch!

I try to use the examples of an orchestra conductor or a restaurant chef.  A conductor will write of arrange the music and have different professional groups, string, woodwinds, percussion, horns, etc. play in order to have a composition.  If you just let everyone do their own thing, one ends up with noise.

Are best clients are ones that understand what we do, have tried to do it themselves, and want no part in what an architect does.  Unfortunately, the general public thinks that we are all bunch of prima donnas who do not care about cost, building efficiency, or time.  The engineers and contractors do the work.  Architects just make a project pretty, or do designs to win awards that they give to each other.

------------------------------------------
David Hauseman AIA
The Hauseman Group, Inc.
Atlanta GA
-------------------------------------------

Regarding the public visibility of architecture I completely agree that the profession doesn't do a good job of selling itself.  When I was in school in school in Seattle, too many years ago, the local paper would sponsor a Sunday open house as part  of its real estate section.  Roughly every 4-6 weeks the open house would be a jointly sponsored AIA event in which the house had been designed and/or built  by an AIA architect. It always drew  big crowds and it's been by far the best thing I've ever seen in 25+ years  of practice in making the general public aware of Architecture.  I understand lots of architects have nothing to do with housing, myself included, but that is the point where design really touches people's lives the most directly, and where  people  can relate to design on a personal level.  I don't think it's any coincidence that Seattle has some  of the most interesting contemporary residential architecture, both single and multi-family, not to mention a vibrant downtown and a generally livable community.
Our public relations efforts need to understand the audience we're trying to reach and  speak to them about things that are meaningful to them, if we're ever going to have a dialogue about design and convince people of its value.

-------------------------------------------
Eugene Ely AIA
HMC Architects
San Jose CA
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Original Message:
Sent: 01-06-2011 09:30
From: R. Sandquist
Subject: Archtiectual Value



-------------------------------------------
R. Sandquist AIA
Vice President
Sandquist Construction Group Inc
Lincoln NE
-------------------------------------------
Fees? Value? Public perception of fees and value?  As an architect with my own general contracting business, all this discussion on the architectural profession's value and the public's ignorance of what architects do and what they get paid for suggests both good and the bad:
        1.    PRO: The architectural profession is apparently doing a darn good job at what they do - design in general, designing to codes, promoting building safety and welfare, etc, etc, etc.  Compare this to a different profession - if eveyone always seemed to be in perfect health, would the public feel the same need for doctors or the medical profession?  I suggest probably not!
        2.    CON: The architectural profession does a darn poor job of making their profession more visible to the public, and letting the public know what they do.  I always remember from college days being surprised at how many architectural co-students quite admittedly still had such minimal understanding of the profession and what architects do.  I believe the profession and the AIA both need much more visibility, positive visibilityto be better perceived, and I continue those efforts locally.

I have to disagree with Eugene that home design is where most people can relate to design on a personal level, or more specifically with his inference that this kind of relating to architecture that is of any benefit to the profession.  I think that the public percieves residential design as matter of aesthetic effect or simple floor plan layout.  What the public needs to understand about architecture is the incredible amount of technical complexity, vast number of hours, and huge knowledge base that practicing architecture in a competent manner requires.  The image they need to see is that of the back room in a production firm, people with their sleeves rolled up, researching code requirements and technical detailing.  All that architecture truly is which is the antithesis of the glamorous image of Frank Lloyd Wright and Frank Ghery.

The problem is not that the public doesn't have a realistic vision of architecture, it is that architects themeselves don't have a realistive vision of architecture.  Solve the second issue and the first one will take care of itself!

 

Alan G. Burcope, AIA, MBA, LEED-AP

-------------------------------------------
Alan Burcope AIA
VP Project Development
HBE Corporation
Saint Louis MO
-------------------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 01-07-2011 11:17
From: Eugene Ely
Subject: Archtiectual Value


Regarding the public visibility of architecture I completely agree that the profession doesn't do a good job of selling itself.  When I was in school in school in Seattle, too many years ago, the local paper would sponsor a Sunday open house as part  of its real estate section.  Roughly every 4-6 weeks the open house would be a jointly sponsored AIA event in which the house had been designed and/or built  by an AIA architect. It always drew  big crowds and it's been by far the best thing I've ever seen in 25+ years  of practice in making the general public aware of Architecture.  I understand lots of architects have nothing to do with housing, myself included, but that is the point where design really touches people's lives the most directly, and where  people  can relate to design on a personal level.  I don't think it's any coincidence that Seattle has some  of the most interesting contemporary residential architecture, both single and multi-family, not to mention a vibrant downtown and a generally livable community.
Our public relations efforts need to understand the audience we're trying to reach and  speak to them about things that are meaningful to them, if we're ever going to have a dialogue about design and convince people of its value.

-------------------------------------------
Eugene Ely AIA
HMC Architects
San Jose CA
-------------------------------------------

I have to agree with you Alan.  Most people spend more waking hours in other places than in their home.  Therefore it is fair to say that offices and retail (and other places of work) have a larger impact on people and their perception of architecture.  And based on the amount of bad architecture out there, I have to agree that architects need to better understand what architecture is.  Then hopefully as well we will get more good architecture.
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Kerry Hogue AIA
HKS, Inc.
Dallas TX
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Original Message:
Sent: 01-11-2011 15:56
From: Alan Burcope
Subject: Archtiectual Value

I have to disagree with Eugene that home design is where most people can relate to design on a personal level, or more specifically with his inference that this kind of relating to architecture that is of any benefit to the profession.  I think that the public percieves residential design as matter of aesthetic effect or simple floor plan layout.  What the public needs to understand about architecture is the incredible amount of technical complexity, vast number of hours, and huge knowledge base that practicing architecture in a competent manner requires.  The image they need to see is that of the back room in a production firm, people with their sleeves rolled up, researching code requirements and technical detailing.  All that architecture truly is which is the antithesis of the glamorous image of Frank Lloyd Wright and Frank Ghery.

The problem is not that the public doesn't have a realistic vision of architecture, it is that architects themeselves don't have a realistive vision of architecture.  Solve the second issue and the first one will take care of itself!

 

Alan G. Burcope, AIA, MBA, LEED-AP

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Alan Burcope AIA
VP Project Development
HBE Corporation
Saint Louis MO
-------------------------------------------

Mr. Hogue.  I did not mean to sound so confrontational in my prior post.
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Alan Burcope AIA, MBA, LEED AP
VP Project Development
HBE Corporation
Saint Louis MO
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 01-13-2011 15:23
From: Kerry Hogue
Subject: Archtiectual Value


I have to agree with you Alan.  Most people spend more waking hours in other places than in their home.  Therefore it is fair to say that offices and retail (and other places of work) have a larger impact on people and their perception of architecture.  And based on the amount of bad architecture out there, I have to agree that architects need to better understand what architecture is.  Then hopefully as well we will get more good architecture.
-------------------------------------------
Kerry Hogue AIA
HKS, Inc.
Dallas TX
-------------------------------------------

This is my first post on this forum, although I read it with interest regularly.  The debate regarding the topic of Architectural Value has prompted me to add my thoughts.

Without question, all of us who practice this profession know the value we bring to our clients and those who use our environments.  The problem we have however is evidenced in the exact nature of this forum....we are discussing this among ourselves instead of figuring out a way to telegraph the answer, in a meaningful singular voice, to the public at large.  This is a problem faced every day by all of us as we strive to educate our prospective clients, and then deliver that value through the course of a project's evolution from design through completion. How many of us have experienced a client telling us at the conclusion of a successful project,"now I understand what you do!"

I don't profess to have an answer to this.  But I do know one place we can start to look - and that is the cultural landscape around us. While the number of design-related media products has exploded (HGTV, DIY Network, Bravo TV reality shows and many others), the contribution of the architect to these featured projects has diminished to a point of near invisibleness.  Many programs showcase interior designers directing major renovations.  They showcase "self-taught" designers building and branding their design business in custom renovations.  There is even a show that highlights and celebrates the role of the real estate agent, showcasing the potential transaction fee that the agent will earn if the sale is achieved. More shows are forthcoming, including one by a former rap-star turned remodeler.  The public interest is clearly there for the subject.  Only the architect is absent from the process.

As a profession we need to figure out the answer to the question everyone on this post seems to be alluding to: how do we tangibly explain the value of our services to the public? And while I'm not suggesting we develop a reality show on the drama's associated with our work (although we all know there's enough drama to support one....) I am suggesting that we start to collectively brainstorm our way to an effective answer to that question and then get that message out there loud and clear. 

I've been practicing for 30 years; building a firm for the last twenty and this is the fourth recessionary cycle I have experienced in that time - with this being the worst by far.  We need to find an answer to that question so that we can build a sustainable business model for the practice of architecture that does not consist of a repetitive cycle of boom and bust that keeps us all struggling to survive and competing against each other in an environment that results in fees being deflated to levels that do not support salaries that are comensurate with the training and skill required of us. I love what I do and despite the struggle, cannot think of anything else I would enjoy more - my work day is rarely boring.  However, it's becoming increasingly difficult for me to speak with encouragement to young people interested in this profession.  

I still have hope, although I don't have the magic answer.  But we're a creative bunch, that's without dispute....and I offer this question to this forum in the hope that all these creative minds will start to brainstorm an answer that will ultimately result in a profound, beneficial shift to the way our value is perceived by the public.

 



-------------------------------------------
Karen Luongo AIA
Kapuscinski and Luongo Architects
Murray Hill NJ
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Original Message:
Sent: 01-17-2011 09:32
From: Alan Burcope
Subject: Archtiectual Value


Mr. Hogue.  I did not mean to sound so confrontational in my prior post.
-------------------------------------------
Alan Burcope AIA, MBA, LEED AP
VP Project Development
HBE Corporation
Saint Louis MO
-------------------------------------------

Karen,  I enjoyed reading your post and especially agree with this part:
 
///I do know one place we can start to look - and that is the cultural landscape around us. While the number of design-related media products has exploded (HGTV, DIY Network, Bravo TV reality shows and many others), the contribution of the architect to these featured projects has diminished to a point of near invisibleness.  Many programs showcase interior designers directing major renovations.  They showcase "self-taught" designers building and branding their design business in custom renovations.  There is even a show that highlights and celebrates the role of the real estate agent, showcasing the potential transaction fee that the agent will earn if the sale is achieved. More shows are forthcoming, including one by a former rap-star turned remodeler.  The public interest is clearly there for the subject.  Only the architect is absent from the process.///

Given what you've observed, along with what another poster (Mr. Culango- sp?) just mentioned:
///Most folks believe builders design houses and in many states they do. Legislation should emulate the State of NJ regarding who may design homes!///

Maybe one step toward raising awareness of the value of good architecture would be to do a PBS or HBO series on houses designed by architects in New Jersey: are the houses there really better because of having been designed by registered architects?  The show could set out to prove that, yes they are.  Maybe we could call it:
"New Jersey Home Designs are....Jerseylicious!"  (and we could use The Ladders recent ad campaign as a template...) :)

All in good fun! :D


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Tara Imani AIA
Principal
Tara Imani Designs, LLC
Houston TX
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Original Message:
Sent: 01-19-2011 12:52
From: Karen Luongo
Subject: Archtiectual Value

This is my first post on this forum, although I read it with interest regularly.  The debate regarding the topic of Architectural Value has prompted me to add my thoughts.

Without question, all of us who practice this profession know the value we bring to our clients and those who use our environments.  The problem we have however is evidenced in the exact nature of this forum....we are discussing this among ourselves instead of figuring out a way to telegraph the answer, in a meaningful singular voice, to the public at large.  This is a problem faced every day by all of us as we strive to educate our prospective clients, and then deliver that value through the course of a project's evolution from design through completion. How many of us have experienced a client telling us at the conclusion of a successful project,"now I understand what you do!"

I don't profess to have an answer to this.  But I do know one place we can start to look - and that is the cultural landscape around us. While the number of design-related media products has exploded (HGTV, DIY Network, Bravo TV reality shows and many others), the contribution of the architect to these featured projects has diminished to a point of near invisibleness.  Many programs showcase interior designers directing major renovations.  They showcase "self-taught" designers building and branding their design business in custom renovations.  There is even a show that highlights and celebrates the role of the real estate agent, showcasing the potential transaction fee that the agent will earn if the sale is achieved. More shows are forthcoming, including one by a former rap-star turned remodeler.  The public interest is clearly there for the subject.  Only the architect is absent from the process.

As a profession we need to figure out the answer to the question everyone on this post seems to be alluding to: how do we tangibly explain the value of our services to the public? And while I'm not suggesting we develop a reality show on the drama's associated with our work (although we all know there's enough drama to support one....) I am suggesting that we start to collectively brainstorm our way to an effective answer to that question and then get that message out there loud and clear. 

I've been practicing for 30 years; building a firm for the last twenty and this is the fourth recessionary cycle I have experienced in that time - with this being the worst by far.  We need to find an answer to that question so that we can build a sustainable business model for the practice of architecture that does not consist of a repetitive cycle of boom and bust that keeps us all struggling to survive and competing against each other in an environment that results in fees being deflated to levels that do not support salaries that are comensurate with the training and skill required of us. I love what I do and despite the struggle, cannot think of anything else I would enjoy more - my work day is rarely boring.  However, it's becoming increasingly difficult for me to speak with encouragement to young people interested in this profession.  

I still have hope, although I don't have the magic answer.  But we're a creative bunch, that's without dispute....and I offer this question to this forum in the hope that all these creative minds will start to brainstorm an answer that will ultimately result in a profound, beneficial shift to the way our value is perceived by the public.

 



-------------------------------------------
Karen Luongo AIA
Kapuscinski and Luongo Architects
Murray Hill NJ
-------------------------------------------

Mr. Hogue I'm affraid that your response to my reply may have been taken out of context, which was not about "good architecture or bad architecture," but rather about "the profession and business of architectural practice," and the way that industry media portrayal of architects as iconic designer/artists is bad for the profession.  Your response effectively changed the conversation back to one of design, and away from the subject of the "practice of architecture."  This is the way the conversation always seems to go, toward the subjective realm of "design."  In my opinion the debate needs to stay focused on subjects relevant to the profession, business and practice of architecture and debate design issues in the design forum.

My original point is that many architects don't know what business they are in.  They have little understanding of how money flows, what keeps the profession from fading into oblivion, or what clients are buying versus what architects are selling.  The industry media promotes architecture as art and architect as artist, but the facts are quite different.  Most are technicians or business people, few are artists, and generally, clients are not purchasing the art of architecture, they are purchasing the technical and business services.

-------------------------------------------
Alan Burcope AIA, MBA, LEED AP
VP Project Development
HBE Corporation
Saint Louis MO
-------------------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 01-13-2011 15:23
From: Kerry Hogue
Subject: Archtiectual Value


I have to agree with you Alan.  Most people spend more waking hours in other places than in their home.  Therefore it is fair to say that offices and retail (and other places of work) have a larger impact on people and their perception of architecture.  And based on the amount of bad architecture out there, I have to agree that architects need to better understand what architecture is.  Then hopefully as well we will get more good architecture.
-------------------------------------------
Kerry Hogue AIA
HKS, Inc.
Dallas TX
-------------------------------------------

This is a general response to the discussions. Based upon my 37 years of practice, my observations include the following:

1. Many architects often fail to run their practices as businesses. Clients quickly perceive this.

2. Many architects often fail at negotiating reasonable contracts with their clients out of fear that they will lose the client. I have found that, for the most part, clients respect a business approach to contracts and will almost always accept a fair, balanced, and insurable agreement. They will not benefit by grinding us into the ground. My firm has never lost a potential client during contract negotiations.

3. Many architects undermine appropriate fees by offering to do work below what is needed to deliver a successful project at a reasonable profit. Low fees often result in a viscious cycle- low paid, inexperienced employees, increased employee turn-over, corner cutting, less managerial participation, defective construction documents, insufficient CA services, failed projects, litigation, and the cycle continues. As a general rule we should not take on projects that we know cannot sustain or grow our businesses. My firm never uses % of construction cost- based fees. They are hard to justify. On the other hand, if we do our homework, identify the unique needs of the project, estimate the direct and indirect expenses, contingencies, and reasonable profit needed for a successful project and review this information with our prospective client, our fees are defendable and almost always accepted.

4. We architects often pay our attorneys and accountants at billing rates that are twice ours. Their services are perceived as indispensible, ours are not.

5. We architects talk "added value" but often fail to demonstrate it to our clients. Too often these are just marketing buzz words. We need to understand our clients' businesses and how design might contribute to the achievement of their strategic goals. Then we need to make it happen. Value can be added to a project on a smaller scale also at little or no additional cost. We need to search out those opportunities and our clients will appreciate us for doing so.


-------------------------------------------
Jack Downing, AIA
Principal
Downing Ferguson Peeples, LLC
Health Care Architecture and Consulting
Austin, TX
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 01-05-2011 01:51
From: David Hauseman
Subject: Archtiectual Value

-Architectural Value

Architectural Value is a nice idea, but the general public does not really value architectural sevricves or have any idea of what we do.  My own family has no idea of what I as an architect does no matter how many times I have explained to them.  They think we just do pretty pictures of if we do drawings or specificaitons, and all of that is computerized.  They know that we sometimes help to get permits, but that is about it.

My brother, a banker, felt and somewhat still feels, that the contractor goes to Home Depot, buys some steel or concrete, cuts into length, pounds it to fit, and paints it to match.  He is 50.  A couple of years ago he asked me what I really did?  He still is clueless as are my sister and mother.

The public loves the name architect, but try to get them to pay for our services.  They will pay an engineer because that is math and difficult. But design and coordination, the general public has no idea.  Just look at the architects portaryed in movies or on TV sitcoms over the years; Mr. Ed and the Brady Bunch!

I try to use the examples of an orchestra conductor or a restaurant chef.  A conductor will write of arrange the music and have different professional groups, string, woodwinds, percussion, horns, etc. play in order to have a composition.  If you just let everyone do their own thing, one ends up with noise.

Are best clients are ones that understand what we do, have tried to do it themselves, and want no part in what an architect does.  Unfortunately, the general public thinks that we are all bunch of prima donnas who do not care about cost, building efficiency, or time.  The engineers and contractors do the work.  Architects just make a project pretty, or do designs to win awards that they give to each other.

------------------------------------------
David Hauseman AIA
The Hauseman Group, Inc.
Atlanta GA
-------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------
Rudy Fabiano AIA
Fabiano Architects, PC
Montclair NJ
-------------------------------------------

The profession is at a crisis, and we, aided by the bad economy and lack of good business fundamentals, are at fault.  We are the only group Licensed to provide architectural services.  Yet we act like fees are the only way to get the job.  Our only competitors are ourselves.  No one is making us charge low fees.  We have set the publics expectation of what our value is by letting developers and owners dictate to us what we should charge.  They don't understand, and frankly don't care what risks we take, or the true amount of time we dedicate for the little financial gain we get. 

Honestly, I think we are nuts to be in this business as it stands.  It is clear to me the only reason most of us are in it is because we have a passion, love, and talent for what we do.  Essentially we are in bad a very one-sided relationship we have enabled and help create.  I fear no amount of therapy will help.  Perhaps that passion, experience, and dedication to our calling, can help pull us together and start becoming reasonable business people. It should be quite clear to me that we can't practice architecture, and take care of our families, without practicing the business of architecture at a high level.  Assert our value through educating the client, and the public, and most importantly, start supporting each other.  Stop with the ridiculously low fees that can't possibly sustain any business. Teach business courses to young architects, and except that the embarrassing salaries we pay our people is a result of a culture WE desperately need to fix.





Original Message:
Sent: 01-05-2011 01:51
From: David Hauseman
Subject: Archtiectual Value

-Architectural Value

Architectural Value is a nice idea, but the general public does not really value architectural sevricves or have any idea of what we do.  My own family has no idea of what I as an architect does no matter how many times I have explained to them.  They think we just do pretty pictures of if we do drawings or specificaitons, and all of that is computerized.  They know that we sometimes help to get permits, but that is about it.

My brother, a banker, felt and somewhat still feels, that the contractor goes to Home Depot, buys some steel or concrete, cuts into length, pounds it to fit, and paints it to match.  He is 50.  A couple of years ago he asked me what I really did?  He still is clueless as are my sister and mother.

The public loves the name architect, but try to get them to pay for our services.  They will pay an engineer because that is math and difficult. But design and coordination, the general public has no idea.  Just look at the architects portaryed in movies or on TV sitcoms over the years; Mr. Ed and the Brady Bunch!

I try to use the examples of an orchestra conductor or a restaurant chef.  A conductor will write of arrange the music and have different professional groups, string, woodwinds, percussion, horns, etc. play in order to have a composition.  If you just let everyone do their own thing, one ends up with noise.

Are best clients are ones that understand what we do, have tried to do it themselves, and want no part in what an architect does.  Unfortunately, the general public thinks that we are all bunch of prima donnas who do not care about cost, building efficiency, or time.  The engineers and contractors do the work.  Architects just make a project pretty, or do designs to win awards that they give to each other.

------------------------------------------
David Hauseman AIA
The Hauseman Group, Inc.
Atlanta GA
-------------------------------------------